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To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric becau

To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd love to buy an electric vehicle. Unfortunately prices remain impractical ($30K+ for a sedan) and the federal tax incentive is both expiring and regressive (the richer you are the more you'll get back up to $7.2K, after the new standard deduction ($25K) I'd need to earn near $90K with two dependants to get the full amount). They're great for those living in California or similar. Our state offers no incentives and actually stabbed people who installed solar in the back (decreased the buy-back amount to almost nothing).

cowmix 7y ago
Where are you located? The Chevy Bolt is being offered with pretty good incentives. Between those prices, gas savings, etc. Getting a Bolt might make sense.
- Someone1234 7y ago
  It starts at $36,620 and has up to $3,750[0] in federal tax credits. Making it a $30K+ Subcompact non-luxury vehicle. It doesn't make sense. [0] https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml
  - d1zzy 7y ago
    It used to be much higher tax credit, if you purchased an EV a while back in CA you got around $10k total (federal + state) tax credits which was VERY significant (it explains why you can find very cheap second hand EVs, the 10k credit is already accounted for in the second hand pricing). It's the general high price of new EVs that kept me away from buying one when I was in the market last year, I'm also the type that likes to pay for their car in cash. But second hand EVs are definitely a very intriguing choice for a second/commute-only car. You can get $7k electric Smart for very low mileage (under 10k).
  - freehunter 7y ago
    For comparison, you can get a Certified Pre-Owned BMW 3-series for similar money. At that price point you need to be buying the car specifically because it's electric, not because it's a good value.
    - flavoie 7y ago
      If you add up yearly fuel cost (with real number you make, not the official one), maintenance cost ($ and time wasted). Not sure it hold true. With my commute, suburban+urban with high traffic. Definitely not true. The bolt will be way cheaper. It will be also quicker, even if it was not meant to be.
      - ben7799 7y ago
        A bolt vs a 3-series is probably the same situation as the detailed comparisons we've seen from limo operators comparing the Tesla Model S vs MB S-class, BMW 7-series, Lincoln Town car, etc.. In those comparisons the Tesla proved to be 1/5-1/4 the maintenance cost per 100,000 miles. Nobody buys a BMW in the US for good value when you factor in maintenance costs & overall TCO. The only reason you buy one is cause you like the driving dynamics. That's a perfectly fine reason IMO. It doesn't seem there are any limo operators who are going to operate a Bolt and rapidly drive it to 400k-500k miles to find out just how reliable it is. But I really suspect a Chevy could be less of a hassle to maintain than a Tesla.. since GM is a much more established manufacturer and has a long built out dealer/service network it's hard for me to believe it could be worse than Tesla.
    - prolepunk 7y ago
      Yes, but you will end up with a used BMW 3-series.
j2bax 7y ago
Not sure what your mileage needs are, but I recently picked up an off lease 2016 eGolf with 33k miles for $12,500 from the VW dealer as my commuter. Gets about 80 miles to a charge in town/city driving, more than enough for my daily commute. Wife drives the long range ICE family vehicle. Some day I hope to be able to affordably replace that as well!
- Someone1234 7y ago
  My mileage needs are low. Unfortunately they don't/didn't ever sell the e-Golf here. Looking at used car sites the nearest ones are in California (about a two day drive). Still might be worth the drive at those prices (although charging it to get it home might require some pre-planning).
  - boulos 7y ago
    Shipping it would be somewhere between $500 and $1500 depending on your distance. Alternatively, you can rent a one-way U-Haul (or similar) with car towing and tow it :). The fuel alone though at say 15 mpg while towing is probably about $250 though.
- dawnerd 7y ago
  You can get a 2019 eGolf for about the same price. Dealers are willing to negotiate big time. I got mine almost two months ago for 10k off msrp + state and federal.
  - j2bax 7y ago
    Yeah, the challenge for me is that they don’t sell them locally and my state doesn’t do an incentive. Would have been hard to beat $12,500 without a bunch of hassle although I’ve read that there are ridiculous deals happening if you qualify for all of the incentives available.
  - altano 7y ago
    Where at?
yardie 7y ago
> both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. At one point I was completely fascinated with the Fiat 500e. Here was an electric car that was stylish, quirky, and could be had on the used market at a great price. But as I got further into it I realized that FCA hated producing this car. Its only reason to exist is to allow them to produce more pollutant vehicles as a regulatory balance. And if it did have a future there would be the barest minimum invested into it. So I'm back to looking at Teslas, even though I haven't liked the styling since the Lotus designed Roadster.
- seabrookmx 7y ago
  > Lotus designed Roadster One of these passed me on the highway the other day. I've only seen a handful of Lotus in my life and never a Tesla Roadster.. it really is a beautiful little car. Pretty small (and impractical for cargo/passengers I'd imagine) though.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - felipelemos 7y ago
    “Simplify, then add lightness” Chapman, Colin. The Lotus philosophy is to create small lightweighted sport cars, after all.
    - mbuinl989 7y ago
      They also innovated, one example was the side skirts used on their black and gold JPS F1 car in the late 70's or 80's. The side skirts gave greater down force when going around corners, its also a discreet way to improve handling on todays road cars as the FIA regs no longer permit the side skirts. BBC TopGear covered this in their last episode.
      - jerkstate 7y ago
        What's old is new again - ground effects will be back in F1 in 2021: https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/new-f1-car-design-rules-2021/4496322/ https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/new-f1-car-design-rules-20...
neogodless 7y ago
While I mostly agree with your statements, I think you could argue that Ford is up there with Honda, if not ahead of them in supporting (if not pushing) hybrids. The Fusion hybrid outsells the Accord hybrid (at least in the U.S.) by a wide margin, and not far behind the Prius. https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10301 https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10301
- toast0 7y ago
  Where does the fusion fit in Ford's plan to build Mustangs and trucks only? [1] [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-stop-making-all-passenger-cars-except-mustang-n869256 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-stop-making-all-...
  - neogodless 7y ago
    Honestly you're right. While they've been selling more and more Fusion hybrids every year, they have largely shifted plans away from the sedan. My bad - not sure where they're going next. They might get behind hybrids, but the past performance is not indicative of the future!
  - twblalock 7y ago
    Hybrid F150s and Mustangs are both expected in the next few years.
- Someone1234 7y ago
  2020 will be the last model year for the Fusion Hybrid (production will end in 2021): https://www.autonews.com/sales/ford-says-fusion-output-will-continue-least-through-2021 https://www.autonews.com/sales/ford-says-fusion-output-will-...
- dartdartdart1 7y ago
  Disagree since they lease Toyota's hybrid tech
cjensen 7y ago
Used Nissan Leafs are unusually cheap. Generally around $12-14K from Carmax. Yes the battery is already a bit worn out, but the price cut is very worth it.
- alvern 7y ago
  The first generations are regularly going for $5k-$8k.
  - Shebanator 7y ago
    There are good reasons why those early Leafs are so cheap. Namely battery packs that lose effectiveness very quickly due to lack of cooling. Stay away.
- spenrose 7y ago
  FWIW, my 2015 Leaf still goes 90 miles on a charge.
  - oakesm9 7y ago
    How does that compare to when it was new?
    - spenrose 7y ago
      Identical for effective purposes. I don't make the same ~85 mile ride often enough to detect whatever small losses there may be.
gdickie 7y ago
The federal tax incentive is a refundable tax credit. So it doesn't interact with deductions. It's regressive in the sense that you need to be buying a new car to get it. But it passes to used car owners in the form of a lower residual value for the car. A one year old plug-in hybrid lease-return can be a great deal.
- NickM 7y ago
  It is a credit, but it is not refundable and cannot be carried over into future years. However, it has led to some pretty good lease deals for people that can’t get the full credit themselves, since for leases the credit goes to the company providing the lease. Also good points about the value of the credit being effectively passed on for used car sales.
pkulak 7y ago
If you lease, you can get the full $7500 as a cap reduction, then just buy at the end if that's what you really wanted to do. Or look for a dealer demo car. They tend to list them for exactly $7500 under MSRP. But yeah, never buy new if you can't claim the full amount, since the value of your car has gone down by that amount when it leaves the lot.
Glyptodon 7y ago
What about the Korean makes? I have the impression that Kia/Hyundai are giving things a reasonable go, but are maybe just a little late to it. Is this wrong? (A friend has a Niro and I've been impressed with it for the price.)
- jmccaf 7y ago
  Agree, my impression is their plug-in hybrids are very capable, but late-to-the-game
gwbas1c 7y ago
You're missing the point: There's basically a point sometime in the 2020s when an electric vehicle becomes cheaper than a gas car. We just don't know that date yet. The biggest cost of an electric car is the battery; and the cost of batteries is dropping very fast. Everything else is significantly cheaper in an electric vehicle except for the cost of the battery. (Tesla used to say there's a "Moore's Law" of battery capacity, which is that every 7 years the capacity doubles for the same cost.) Everyone (in the auto industry) knows this, it's just a matter of deciding how to plan for this. Either you can make a lot of hybrids for a decade; or you can sell EVs side-by-side with conventional cars.
- sandworm101 7y ago
  >> sometime in the 2020s when an electric vehicle becomes cheaper than a gas car. Maybe, but the limitations of electric vehicles still mean it is an apple and oranges comparison. Electric cars are still a long way off in terms of range, towing capacity, utility and winter performance. They might seem great in California, especially as a second car, but they are still a long long way off from replicating how many non-rich people use their vehicles. We don't all live in SF. Personally, I'd need a stable 1000km/day range capacity, in winter/-30, in mountains, pulling several hundred pounds of people/stuff, before I'd even consider electric for my one and only car. Price is beside the point. I'm starting to think that zero net emission tech (diesel from air etc) might catch up before all-electric becomes the widespread standard.
  - allana 7y ago
    I'd say the breakeven point for electric vehicles has already come. Electric cars have yet to hit this breakeven point, but waves of people have modeswitched to eBikes and electric scooters to get out of snarled traffic, shorten their commutes and lower their cost of transport
  - joshlegs 7y ago
    > towing capacity what? Electric vehicles are vastly superior in towing capacity. The Model X from tesla can TOW a boeing jet -- 230,000 pounds. Now that has some tradeoffs for range, i believe. but in terms of actual towing capacity, it's leaps and bounds ahead of any other vehicle capable of towing. if you'd said 'towing range', i might be willing to accept that. range itself is also just not really a concern any more. 300+ miles of range on a single charge is more than enough for the vast majority of drivers. winter performance is possibly somethign to worry about, but when you can charge overnight at your home, you can still leave every morning with a 'full tank', so it's also just not really a concern any more.
zepearl 7y ago
I have just noticed that the Volvo V60 twin-engine (hybrid) is not listed on their US nor UK sub-websites - I wonder why...? (it is listed e.g. on their Swiss and German sub-sites) https://www.volvocars.com https://www.volvocars.com
- gambiting 7y ago
  Volvo's selection of engines in the UK has always been lacking. Tbf it could be due to an actual technical issue with adopting the drivetrain to right-hand-drive car, but in general I see that many manufacturers just pick a few engines that they think the British customer will like and that's all you can get, while people in France or Germany get the full choice of all drivetrains. UK vs US is even more funny because it's extremely common to see cars which are only available with a diesel in the UK, but only available with a big petrol engine in the US. Again, it's based on what the customer supposedly wants.
- bryanlarsen 7y ago
  The dealer I talked to yesterday had price sheets for 2020 V60 T8 (PHEV) in Canada (and presumably US). So they'll be here in a few months.
yumraj 7y ago
> It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. Why do you say that they haven't been successful? At least in CA they, especially Prius, has done very well.
- scandox 7y ago
  That's a Toyota which he explicitly excludes
evo_9 7y ago
Buy a BMW i3 used; they go for sub-20k. I live in Colorado and it’s fine all year round. If you need to drive more than 120 miles in a day then yes this is still impractical, otherwise it’s the best bargain in EV land and a fun car to jet around town in.
- durandal1 7y ago
  The range extender version is also quite neat for a fairly small increase in purchase price. We rarely use it but we fairly often cut it close with battery capacity and it's nice to have the backup.
- maxsilver 7y ago
  > it’s fine all year round. How does it do on potholes? And on ice? I really wanted to love the i3, but the bicycle tires looked liked they'd be fundamentally unsafe on the ice or on any unmaintained (pothole-filled) road.
  - eMSF 7y ago
    The narrow tyres of the i3 sure look funny, but I wouldn't expect it to be an issue on ice. It's pretty common knowledge around here to have narrower winter tyres than summer tyres so you don't just glide over snow, so I guess the i3 has just the right profile... for winter.
  - evo_9 7y ago
    A bit late but hopefully helpful. I find it to be very unstable on snow/ice, and I grew up in Michigan driving in much worse than Colorado typically gets. The caveat is that you buy real winter tiles (x-ice, Blizzak,etc) and it's pretty rock solid. I agree the bicycle tires are terrible looking. I actually just bought a 2017 today for 22k and the salesmen mentioned one of the mechanics has an i3 and has tricked his out, including bigger rims/tires. I'm going to reach out and do the same now that I own one (had been leasing a 2017).
rasz 7y ago
>make hybrids for real are Honda Say hello to 2006-2011 Honda Civic IMA with non cooled non charge balanced battery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_Hybrid#Battery_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_Hybrid#Battery_lif... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkwOAUDdf0A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkwOAUDdf0A

cowmix 7y ago

Where are you located? The Chevy Bolt is being offered with pretty good incentives. Between those prices, gas savings, etc. Getting a Bolt might make sense.

Someone1234 7y ago
It starts at $36,620 and has up to $3,750[0] in federal tax credits. Making it a $30K+ Subcompact non-luxury vehicle. It doesn't make sense. [0] https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml
- d1zzy 7y ago
  It used to be much higher tax credit, if you purchased an EV a while back in CA you got around $10k total (federal + state) tax credits which was VERY significant (it explains why you can find very cheap second hand EVs, the 10k credit is already accounted for in the second hand pricing). It's the general high price of new EVs that kept me away from buying one when I was in the market last year, I'm also the type that likes to pay for their car in cash. But second hand EVs are definitely a very intriguing choice for a second/commute-only car. You can get $7k electric Smart for very low mileage (under 10k).
- freehunter 7y ago
  For comparison, you can get a Certified Pre-Owned BMW 3-series for similar money. At that price point you need to be buying the car specifically because it's electric, not because it's a good value.
  - flavoie 7y ago
    If you add up yearly fuel cost (with real number you make, not the official one), maintenance cost ($ and time wasted). Not sure it hold true. With my commute, suburban+urban with high traffic. Definitely not true. The bolt will be way cheaper. It will be also quicker, even if it was not meant to be.
    - ben7799 7y ago
      A bolt vs a 3-series is probably the same situation as the detailed comparisons we've seen from limo operators comparing the Tesla Model S vs MB S-class, BMW 7-series, Lincoln Town car, etc.. In those comparisons the Tesla proved to be 1/5-1/4 the maintenance cost per 100,000 miles. Nobody buys a BMW in the US for good value when you factor in maintenance costs & overall TCO. The only reason you buy one is cause you like the driving dynamics. That's a perfectly fine reason IMO. It doesn't seem there are any limo operators who are going to operate a Bolt and rapidly drive it to 400k-500k miles to find out just how reliable it is. But I really suspect a Chevy could be less of a hassle to maintain than a Tesla.. since GM is a much more established manufacturer and has a long built out dealer/service network it's hard for me to believe it could be worse than Tesla.
  - prolepunk 7y ago
    Yes, but you will end up with a used BMW 3-series.

j2bax 7y ago

Not sure what your mileage needs are, but I recently picked up an off lease 2016 eGolf with 33k miles for $12,500 from the VW dealer as my commuter. Gets about 80 miles to a charge in town/city driving, more than enough for my daily commute. Wife drives the long range ICE family vehicle. Some day I hope to be able to affordably replace that as well!

Someone1234 7y ago
My mileage needs are low. Unfortunately they don't/didn't ever sell the e-Golf here. Looking at used car sites the nearest ones are in California (about a two day drive). Still might be worth the drive at those prices (although charging it to get it home might require some pre-planning).
- boulos 7y ago
  Shipping it would be somewhere between $500 and $1500 depending on your distance. Alternatively, you can rent a one-way U-Haul (or similar) with car towing and tow it :). The fuel alone though at say 15 mpg while towing is probably about $250 though.
dawnerd 7y ago
You can get a 2019 eGolf for about the same price. Dealers are willing to negotiate big time. I got mine almost two months ago for 10k off msrp + state and federal.
- j2bax 7y ago
  Yeah, the challenge for me is that they don’t sell them locally and my state doesn’t do an incentive. Would have been hard to beat $12,500 without a bunch of hassle although I’ve read that there are ridiculous deals happening if you qualify for all of the incentives available.
- altano 7y ago
  Where at?

yardie 7y ago

> both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. At one point I was completely fascinated with the Fiat 500e. Here was an electric car that was stylish, quirky, and could be had on the used market at a great price. But as I got further into it I realized that FCA hated producing this car. Its only reason to exist is to allow them to produce more pollutant vehicles as a regulatory balance. And if it did have a future there would be the barest minimum invested into it. So I'm back to looking at Teslas, even though I haven't liked the styling since the Lotus designed Roadster.

seabrookmx 7y ago
> Lotus designed Roadster One of these passed me on the highway the other day. I've only seen a handful of Lotus in my life and never a Tesla Roadster.. it really is a beautiful little car. Pretty small (and impractical for cargo/passengers I'd imagine) though.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- felipelemos 7y ago
  “Simplify, then add lightness” Chapman, Colin. The Lotus philosophy is to create small lightweighted sport cars, after all.
  - mbuinl989 7y ago
    They also innovated, one example was the side skirts used on their black and gold JPS F1 car in the late 70's or 80's. The side skirts gave greater down force when going around corners, its also a discreet way to improve handling on todays road cars as the FIA regs no longer permit the side skirts. BBC TopGear covered this in their last episode.
    - jerkstate 7y ago
      What's old is new again - ground effects will be back in F1 in 2021: https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/new-f1-car-design-rules-2021/4496322/ https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/new-f1-car-design-rules-20...

neogodless 7y ago

While I mostly agree with your statements, I think you could argue that Ford is up there with Honda, if not ahead of them in supporting (if not pushing) hybrids. The Fusion hybrid outsells the Accord hybrid (at least in the U.S.) by a wide margin, and not far behind the Prius. https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10301 https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10301

toast0 7y ago
Where does the fusion fit in Ford's plan to build Mustangs and trucks only? [1] [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-stop-making-all-passenger-cars-except-mustang-n869256 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-stop-making-all-...
- neogodless 7y ago
  Honestly you're right. While they've been selling more and more Fusion hybrids every year, they have largely shifted plans away from the sedan. My bad - not sure where they're going next. They might get behind hybrids, but the past performance is not indicative of the future!
- twblalock 7y ago
  Hybrid F150s and Mustangs are both expected in the next few years.
Someone1234 7y ago
2020 will be the last model year for the Fusion Hybrid (production will end in 2021): https://www.autonews.com/sales/ford-says-fusion-output-will-continue-least-through-2021 https://www.autonews.com/sales/ford-says-fusion-output-will-...
dartdartdart1 7y ago
Disagree since they lease Toyota's hybrid tech

cjensen 7y ago

Used Nissan Leafs are unusually cheap. Generally around $12-14K from Carmax. Yes the battery is already a bit worn out, but the price cut is very worth it.

alvern 7y ago
The first generations are regularly going for $5k-$8k.
- Shebanator 7y ago
  There are good reasons why those early Leafs are so cheap. Namely battery packs that lose effectiveness very quickly due to lack of cooling. Stay away.
spenrose 7y ago
FWIW, my 2015 Leaf still goes 90 miles on a charge.
- oakesm9 7y ago
  How does that compare to when it was new?
  - spenrose 7y ago
    Identical for effective purposes. I don't make the same ~85 mile ride often enough to detect whatever small losses there may be.

gdickie 7y ago

The federal tax incentive is a refundable tax credit. So it doesn't interact with deductions. It's regressive in the sense that you need to be buying a new car to get it. But it passes to used car owners in the form of a lower residual value for the car. A one year old plug-in hybrid lease-return can be a great deal.

NickM 7y ago
It is a credit, but it is not refundable and cannot be carried over into future years. However, it has led to some pretty good lease deals for people that can’t get the full credit themselves, since for leases the credit goes to the company providing the lease. Also good points about the value of the credit being effectively passed on for used car sales.

pkulak 7y ago

If you lease, you can get the full $7500 as a cap reduction, then just buy at the end if that's what you really wanted to do. Or look for a dealer demo car. They tend to list them for exactly $7500 under MSRP. But yeah, never buy new if you can't claim the full amount, since the value of your car has gone down by that amount when it leaves the lot.

Glyptodon 7y ago

What about the Korean makes? I have the impression that Kia/Hyundai are giving things a reasonable go, but are maybe just a little late to it. Is this wrong? (A friend has a Niro and I've been impressed with it for the price.)

jmccaf 7y ago
Agree, my impression is their plug-in hybrids are very capable, but late-to-the-game

gwbas1c 7y ago

You're missing the point: There's basically a point sometime in the 2020s when an electric vehicle becomes cheaper than a gas car. We just don't know that date yet. The biggest cost of an electric car is the battery; and the cost of batteries is dropping very fast. Everything else is significantly cheaper in an electric vehicle except for the cost of the battery. (Tesla used to say there's a "Moore's Law" of battery capacity, which is that every 7 years the capacity doubles for the same cost.) Everyone (in the auto industry) knows this, it's just a matter of deciding how to plan for this. Either you can make a lot of hybrids for a decade; or you can sell EVs side-by-side with conventional cars.

sandworm101 7y ago
>> sometime in the 2020s when an electric vehicle becomes cheaper than a gas car. Maybe, but the limitations of electric vehicles still mean it is an apple and oranges comparison. Electric cars are still a long way off in terms of range, towing capacity, utility and winter performance. They might seem great in California, especially as a second car, but they are still a long long way off from replicating how many non-rich people use their vehicles. We don't all live in SF. Personally, I'd need a stable 1000km/day range capacity, in winter/-30, in mountains, pulling several hundred pounds of people/stuff, before I'd even consider electric for my one and only car. Price is beside the point. I'm starting to think that zero net emission tech (diesel from air etc) might catch up before all-electric becomes the widespread standard.
- allana 7y ago
  I'd say the breakeven point for electric vehicles has already come. Electric cars have yet to hit this breakeven point, but waves of people have modeswitched to eBikes and electric scooters to get out of snarled traffic, shorten their commutes and lower their cost of transport
- joshlegs 7y ago
  > towing capacity what? Electric vehicles are vastly superior in towing capacity. The Model X from tesla can TOW a boeing jet -- 230,000 pounds. Now that has some tradeoffs for range, i believe. but in terms of actual towing capacity, it's leaps and bounds ahead of any other vehicle capable of towing. if you'd said 'towing range', i might be willing to accept that. range itself is also just not really a concern any more. 300+ miles of range on a single charge is more than enough for the vast majority of drivers. winter performance is possibly somethign to worry about, but when you can charge overnight at your home, you can still leave every morning with a 'full tank', so it's also just not really a concern any more.

zepearl 7y ago

I have just noticed that the Volvo V60 twin-engine (hybrid) is not listed on their US nor UK sub-websites - I wonder why...? (it is listed e.g. on their Swiss and German sub-sites) https://www.volvocars.com https://www.volvocars.com

gambiting 7y ago
Volvo's selection of engines in the UK has always been lacking. Tbf it could be due to an actual technical issue with adopting the drivetrain to right-hand-drive car, but in general I see that many manufacturers just pick a few engines that they think the British customer will like and that's all you can get, while people in France or Germany get the full choice of all drivetrains. UK vs US is even more funny because it's extremely common to see cars which are only available with a diesel in the UK, but only available with a big petrol engine in the US. Again, it's based on what the customer supposedly wants.
bryanlarsen 7y ago
The dealer I talked to yesterday had price sheets for 2020 V60 T8 (PHEV) in Canada (and presumably US). So they'll be here in a few months.

yumraj 7y ago

> It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. Why do you say that they haven't been successful? At least in CA they, especially Prius, has done very well.

scandox 7y ago
That's a Toyota which he explicitly excludes

evo_9 7y ago

Buy a BMW i3 used; they go for sub-20k. I live in Colorado and it’s fine all year round. If you need to drive more than 120 miles in a day then yes this is still impractical, otherwise it’s the best bargain in EV land and a fun car to jet around town in.

durandal1 7y ago
The range extender version is also quite neat for a fairly small increase in purchase price. We rarely use it but we fairly often cut it close with battery capacity and it's nice to have the backup.
maxsilver 7y ago
> it’s fine all year round. How does it do on potholes? And on ice? I really wanted to love the i3, but the bicycle tires looked liked they'd be fundamentally unsafe on the ice or on any unmaintained (pothole-filled) road.
- eMSF 7y ago
  The narrow tyres of the i3 sure look funny, but I wouldn't expect it to be an issue on ice. It's pretty common knowledge around here to have narrower winter tyres than summer tyres so you don't just glide over snow, so I guess the i3 has just the right profile... for winter.
- evo_9 7y ago
  A bit late but hopefully helpful. I find it to be very unstable on snow/ice, and I grew up in Michigan driving in much worse than Colorado typically gets. The caveat is that you buy real winter tiles (x-ice, Blizzak,etc) and it's pretty rock solid. I agree the bicycle tires are terrible looking. I actually just bought a 2017 today for 22k and the salesmen mentioned one of the mechanics has an i3 and has tricked his out, including bigger rims/tires. I'm going to reach out and do the same now that I own one (had been leasing a 2017).

rasz 7y ago

>make hybrids for real are Honda Say hello to 2006-2011 Honda Civic IMA with non cooled non charge balanced battery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_Hybrid#Battery_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_Hybrid#Battery_lif... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkwOAUDdf0A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkwOAUDdf0A