4 ms·

The model of having large vehicles that pick up a bunch of people, but drop each person off exactly at their doorstep, is something that has been repeatedly pro

The model of having large vehicles that pick up a bunch of people, but drop each person off exactly at their doorstep, is something that has been repeatedly proposed for self-driving vehicles in the future (by Tesla and others). I wonder if these dollar vans provide clues about what such a system could look like at an even larger scale.

bobthepanda 7y ago
Most of the reason this works is because vans usually have a mid-range capacity between a car and a bus (10-20 people). 4-seater cars are not economical to do like this, and buses are too big to fill up, and when they're full everyone wants to get off at every stop. The vans with their smaller capacity fill up fast and then only drive to let people off. Judging by the way dollar vans and similar minibus manifestations work in other places I've been to, there are a couple of things to note here: - They're not purely pickup/dropoff at the house. They're dropoff at the house, but to pick up you have to walk to the street where they're all usually running. And one end of it is a major pickup location; in the case of these vans, usually a subway station. - Because they only drive off when full, they only make trips where one end of the route is a major pickup location, creating a hub-and-spoke network. Traveling between spokes is something that these vans do very poorly, because there aren't nearly as many people doing that. - At said major pickup point, they will usually cause major traffic congestion as they weave in and out of traffic and around each other. Several cities in South America (e.g. Bogota) replaced minibus-only systems with BRT or more formalized public transport because of the benefits of reducing congestion.
- Zanni 7y ago
  This sounds a bit like the inter-city taxi system in Morocco. There's a central taxi park where you go and drivers call out their destination and number of seats remaining. When the taxi is full (or its getting close to the end of the day), it goes. They'll drop you at your specific destination in the other city. They call these "Grand" taxis. There are also "little" taxis you can take within the city and hire on an individual basis (i.e. you don't need to wait for them to fill up).
- davchana 7y ago
  This is exactly how transport worked when I was a kid in India. A nearby city is hub of everything, doctor, shops, food, fashion, ration everything. 15-20 villages are between the next similar city. A single bus starts from City A, usually empty in morning, & picks along people on the way to City B. There,it turns around, & conductors start shouting City A & Villages names, along with dramatic words like Leaving Soon, Hurry Up, Almost Full, Lets Go, Run etc. But it will run only at either its designated time, or if full, whichever is earlier.
alexhutcheson 7y ago
Dollar vans (at least in NYC) don't drop you off "exactly at your doorstep". They will let you off anywhere along the route, but they don't deviate significantly from the route to get to your destination. Most people walk a bit to get to/from the route.
hadlock 7y ago
Most of South America has this system, among other names, they're called Combis. Back in '12 my buddy and I accidentally got on a long distance Combi instead of a bus between Cartagena and Santa Marta, about 150 miles, cost us maybe $8 each. They run on urban inner city routes too of course. It's how most of the continent gets around outside of capital cities.
NotSammyHagar 7y ago
This is exactly what we have in Seattle in 3 areas so far. It's a last few mile official transit van. You can go from your house (in about a 3 mile radius) to a park and ride, or from the p&r to your house. They have an app that is like lyft. They scan your bus card. If you ride the bus before or after this it's just a free transfer. The vans hold up to maybe 8 people but usually just have at most 4 or 5. The main precious resource they are saving is parking at the park and ride centers. In Seattle the p&r sites fill up ever earlier, and inability to park when you get there means you face driving to seattle and paying a large amount of money.

bobthepanda 7y ago

Most of the reason this works is because vans usually have a mid-range capacity between a car and a bus (10-20 people). 4-seater cars are not economical to do like this, and buses are too big to fill up, and when they're full everyone wants to get off at every stop. The vans with their smaller capacity fill up fast and then only drive to let people off. Judging by the way dollar vans and similar minibus manifestations work in other places I've been to, there are a couple of things to note here: - They're not purely pickup/dropoff at the house. They're dropoff at the house, but to pick up you have to walk to the street where they're all usually running. And one end of it is a major pickup location; in the case of these vans, usually a subway station. - Because they only drive off when full, they only make trips where one end of the route is a major pickup location, creating a hub-and-spoke network. Traveling between spokes is something that these vans do very poorly, because there aren't nearly as many people doing that. - At said major pickup point, they will usually cause major traffic congestion as they weave in and out of traffic and around each other. Several cities in South America (e.g. Bogota) replaced minibus-only systems with BRT or more formalized public transport because of the benefits of reducing congestion.

Zanni 7y ago
This sounds a bit like the inter-city taxi system in Morocco. There's a central taxi park where you go and drivers call out their destination and number of seats remaining. When the taxi is full (or its getting close to the end of the day), it goes. They'll drop you at your specific destination in the other city. They call these "Grand" taxis. There are also "little" taxis you can take within the city and hire on an individual basis (i.e. you don't need to wait for them to fill up).
davchana 7y ago
This is exactly how transport worked when I was a kid in India. A nearby city is hub of everything, doctor, shops, food, fashion, ration everything. 15-20 villages are between the next similar city. A single bus starts from City A, usually empty in morning, & picks along people on the way to City B. There,it turns around, & conductors start shouting City A & Villages names, along with dramatic words like Leaving Soon, Hurry Up, Almost Full, Lets Go, Run etc. But it will run only at either its designated time, or if full, whichever is earlier.

alexhutcheson 7y ago

Dollar vans (at least in NYC) don't drop you off "exactly at your doorstep". They will let you off anywhere along the route, but they don't deviate significantly from the route to get to your destination. Most people walk a bit to get to/from the route.

hadlock 7y ago

Most of South America has this system, among other names, they're called Combis. Back in '12 my buddy and I accidentally got on a long distance Combi instead of a bus between Cartagena and Santa Marta, about 150 miles, cost us maybe $8 each. They run on urban inner city routes too of course. It's how most of the continent gets around outside of capital cities.

NotSammyHagar 7y ago

This is exactly what we have in Seattle in 3 areas so far. It's a last few mile official transit van. You can go from your house (in about a 3 mile radius) to a park and ride, or from the p&r to your house. They have an app that is like lyft. They scan your bus card. If you ride the bus before or after this it's just a free transfer. The vans hold up to maybe 8 people but usually just have at most 4 or 5. The main precious resource they are saving is parking at the park and ride centers. In Seattle the p&r sites fill up ever earlier, and inability to park when you get there means you face driving to seattle and paying a large amount of money.