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> No one cries foul on a passport or driver's license, but a national ID card is so draconian Fair point, but it's worth noting that lots of people don't have

> No one cries foul on a passport or driver's license, but a national ID card is so draconian Fair point, but it's worth noting that lots of people don't have either document. Hence, say, the voter ID law fight: many people genuinely have no standard identity document except SSN. One other aside is that driver's licenses are a remarkably bad identification document. Even plenty of bars won't take out of state driver's licenses, or will outright declare real ones to be fake. And dealing with government offices, I've had several iterations of "that state's license ID has a different number of digits, so I can't use it in our system".

toomuchtodo 7y ago
Yes, I agree entirely. Which is why the cost must be driven down for obtaining a national ID card, and you should be able to obtain one as easily as going to to a DMV. Someone in this thread suggesting using the postal service for such a task, which I would be in favor of with adequate controls in place for safeguarding the PII of citizens. > One other aside is that driver's licenses are a remarkably bad identification document. This is changing with REAL ID; all states are either compliant with new ID issuance and doc standards or have received an extension. https://www.dhs.gov/real-id https://www.dhs.gov/real-id
- rtkwe 7y ago
  Yeah the only way I'd ever say election ID laws were ok and no discriminatory attempts to shape the electorate would be if it were accompanied by a) a massive expensive push to ensure everyone had and ID (mobile DMVs going and registering people who can't get out to an office, free licenses, etc) and automatic voter registration (because if you're going to say everyone needs to have this to vote I damn well be able to vote with just the ID).
bonzini 7y ago
> plenty of bars won't take out of state driver's licenses, or will outright declare real ones to be fake Italians that have an id card predating electronic id are routinely bumped off American bars because to them it looks like it's just a piece of paper with a photo stitched on top. Yet, identity theft is a problem in the US and not in Italy... In fact, even though that id card actually is relatively easy to forget, it does have some watermarks and special government stamps. In fact, it's probably easier to fake an electronic id card with a piece of plastic, if you know no one is going to try using the smartcard functionality.

toomuchtodo 7y ago

Yes, I agree entirely. Which is why the cost must be driven down for obtaining a national ID card, and you should be able to obtain one as easily as going to to a DMV. Someone in this thread suggesting using the postal service for such a task, which I would be in favor of with adequate controls in place for safeguarding the PII of citizens. > One other aside is that driver's licenses are a remarkably bad identification document. This is changing with REAL ID; all states are either compliant with new ID issuance and doc standards or have received an extension. https://www.dhs.gov/real-id https://www.dhs.gov/real-id

rtkwe 7y ago
Yeah the only way I'd ever say election ID laws were ok and no discriminatory attempts to shape the electorate would be if it were accompanied by a) a massive expensive push to ensure everyone had and ID (mobile DMVs going and registering people who can't get out to an office, free licenses, etc) and automatic voter registration (because if you're going to say everyone needs to have this to vote I damn well be able to vote with just the ID).

bonzini 7y ago

> plenty of bars won't take out of state driver's licenses, or will outright declare real ones to be fake Italians that have an id card predating electronic id are routinely bumped off American bars because to them it looks like it's just a piece of paper with a photo stitched on top. Yet, identity theft is a problem in the US and not in Italy... In fact, even though that id card actually is relatively easy to forget, it does have some watermarks and special government stamps. In fact, it's probably easier to fake an electronic id card with a piece of plastic, if you know no one is going to try using the smartcard functionality.