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As a French, I didn't expect to see José Bové on HN. He is indeed a controversial person. A lot of his action where as much praised as they were criticized. Esp

by maeln 7y ago

As a French, I didn't expect to see José Bové on HN. He is indeed a controversial person. A lot of his action where as much praised as they were criticized. Especially when it came to GMO which he was fiercely against. But overall, all his fight, kind of as what the twitter thread says, where against globalization (in the food industry) and in some way for protectionism within France / EU. I know a lot of people consider protectionism a bad thing, but a free market only works when the different actor have roughly the same power. It was (and it still is) not the case, as US had the power to make other actor accept their term and their product, which was heavily damaging the local farmer.

lm28469 7y ago
He's the kind of person you need to have if you want to fight against globalisation. Sure he's extreme, sure some of his actions are barely legal, if not straight up illegal, sure many people don't like him... But look on the other side, do you think companies like monsanto play it fair and nice ? You need people equally motivated to keep the system somewhat balanced.
- kiliantics 7y ago
  Just because something is legal/illegal, doesn't make it right/wrong. I think we will all have to start getting comfortable with illegal things happening -- and even participating in them -- if we want to stop environmental catastrophe.
  - the_seraphim 7y ago
    woah, who is to decide what is right and wrong if not the system we designed to formalise the rights and wrongs of the countries we are in? I'm all for GMO as its the only way we realistically have a chance to feed all these damn children people keep having.
    - brokenmachine 7y ago
      GMO isn't about feeding people, we already produce enough food for everyone, it's just not spread evenly. GMO is about profits first and foremost.
    - kiliantics 7y ago
      Who is "we"? I didn't get to take part in designing any system of right and wrong. And it's very obvious to anyone that looks closely that the only people who have any significant influence over that system are coming from a small powerful and wealthy minority.
    - c1sc0 7y ago
      The answer lies in your first sentence: the system “we” designed ... when you feel the system currently in power does not represent your interests laws are options, not hard rules.
yoz-y 7y ago
I find that French farmers have a tendency to fight and yell against globalisation but don’t bat an eye when it profits them. French agriculture is heavily subsidised too which hurts other European countries.
- ahoy 7y ago
  Surely you don't suggest that this is a uniquely french behavior?
  - yoz-y 7y ago
    No, but as a French citizen I get my share of headlines about protests and since I am originally from one of the shafted countries I also hear the other side. I am pretty sure that this happens everywhere else too though.
- maeln 7y ago
  You are not wrong. But at the same time, you can see from their scope: They have to compete against countries where the cost of labor and the cost of living is much less. Meaning, they can hardly sell their product as the same price as farmer in some other country while making ends-meet. This is nothing new and a known consequence of globalization. Especially when their is no/low tariff and cheap transportation, as is the case within the EU. This mean that, either you let some industry die off and rely entirely on importation (which we did for a lot of manufacturing where everything is know produce in mostly Asian country) or you heavily subsidized it to keep it alive. In the case of agriculture, France heavily subsidized it to keep it alive as it is considered a strategical industry. It is a huge sink hole for France, and as far as I know for the EU. I don't know if they really profit from it financially speaking, but they do need it for soft power and to not being subject of more influence from other country. Overall, their is probably some hypocrisy about globalization within farmer. But isn't it also a natural human behavior ? We tend to scream about injustice unless this injustice profit us.
  - yoz-y 7y ago
    Yeah, as I live in France but when I come back to my country of origin I also see the other side of this mess. I am no economist but I think that the low cost of transport is one of the factors that could be somehow influenced. We keep trucking stuff thousands of kilometers whereas it could grow and be processed just next-door.
DenisM 7y ago
> a free market only works when the different actor have roughly the same power Worked wonders for China though, lifting them from abject poverty to an industrial powerhouse.
- tomp 7y ago
  There's no free market in China. The government is pretty strict in banning foreign enterprises (that can only operate in China if they're co-owned 50% by Chinese) in order to develop local companies. So basically restricting the more powerful player and empowering the less powerful one. That (i.e. non-free markets) has worked wonders for them.
- Svperstar 7y ago
  That wasn't the free market. The US decided to make it cheaper to ship goods from China to the US then it is for businesses in the US to ship inside the US. Government intervention all the way.

by maeln 7y ago

lm28469 7y ago

He's the kind of person you need to have if you want to fight against globalisation. Sure he's extreme, sure some of his actions are barely legal, if not straight up illegal, sure many people don't like him... But look on the other side, do you think companies like monsanto play it fair and nice ? You need people equally motivated to keep the system somewhat balanced.

kiliantics 7y ago
Just because something is legal/illegal, doesn't make it right/wrong. I think we will all have to start getting comfortable with illegal things happening -- and even participating in them -- if we want to stop environmental catastrophe.
- the_seraphim 7y ago
  woah, who is to decide what is right and wrong if not the system we designed to formalise the rights and wrongs of the countries we are in? I'm all for GMO as its the only way we realistically have a chance to feed all these damn children people keep having.
  - brokenmachine 7y ago
    GMO isn't about feeding people, we already produce enough food for everyone, it's just not spread evenly. GMO is about profits first and foremost.
  - kiliantics 7y ago
    Who is "we"? I didn't get to take part in designing any system of right and wrong. And it's very obvious to anyone that looks closely that the only people who have any significant influence over that system are coming from a small powerful and wealthy minority.
  - c1sc0 7y ago
    The answer lies in your first sentence: the system “we” designed ... when you feel the system currently in power does not represent your interests laws are options, not hard rules.

yoz-y 7y ago

I find that French farmers have a tendency to fight and yell against globalisation but don’t bat an eye when it profits them. French agriculture is heavily subsidised too which hurts other European countries.

ahoy 7y ago
Surely you don't suggest that this is a uniquely french behavior?
- yoz-y 7y ago
  No, but as a French citizen I get my share of headlines about protests and since I am originally from one of the shafted countries I also hear the other side. I am pretty sure that this happens everywhere else too though.
maeln 7y ago
You are not wrong. But at the same time, you can see from their scope: They have to compete against countries where the cost of labor and the cost of living is much less. Meaning, they can hardly sell their product as the same price as farmer in some other country while making ends-meet. This is nothing new and a known consequence of globalization. Especially when their is no/low tariff and cheap transportation, as is the case within the EU. This mean that, either you let some industry die off and rely entirely on importation (which we did for a lot of manufacturing where everything is know produce in mostly Asian country) or you heavily subsidized it to keep it alive. In the case of agriculture, France heavily subsidized it to keep it alive as it is considered a strategical industry. It is a huge sink hole for France, and as far as I know for the EU. I don't know if they really profit from it financially speaking, but they do need it for soft power and to not being subject of more influence from other country. Overall, their is probably some hypocrisy about globalization within farmer. But isn't it also a natural human behavior ? We tend to scream about injustice unless this injustice profit us.
- yoz-y 7y ago
  Yeah, as I live in France but when I come back to my country of origin I also see the other side of this mess. I am no economist but I think that the low cost of transport is one of the factors that could be somehow influenced. We keep trucking stuff thousands of kilometers whereas it could grow and be processed just next-door.

DenisM 7y ago

> a free market only works when the different actor have roughly the same power Worked wonders for China though, lifting them from abject poverty to an industrial powerhouse.

tomp 7y ago
There's no free market in China. The government is pretty strict in banning foreign enterprises (that can only operate in China if they're co-owned 50% by Chinese) in order to develop local companies. So basically restricting the more powerful player and empowering the less powerful one. That (i.e. non-free markets) has worked wonders for them.
Svperstar 7y ago
That wasn't the free market. The US decided to make it cheaper to ship goods from China to the US then it is for businesses in the US to ship inside the US. Government intervention all the way.