4 ms·

You have brought up something that most Americans don't want to hear i.e. "The Truth"! I have worked for well over a decade in the US (but i did not study there

You have brought up something that most Americans don't want to hear i.e. "The Truth"! I have worked for well over a decade in the US (but i did not study there) and had always wondered about the dearth of "Americans" in the Tech. Industry. Here is my blunt assessment; 1) Your entire culture/society has turned away from STEM fields. Everybody is only interested in making money via Media/Management/Finance and any other way to "get rich quick". The pursuit of knowledge is gone. This is quite sad given that your previous generations did much to develop and spread scientific temper throughout the world. 2) Americans also suffer from major self-entitlement. In a global world, the fact that your previous generations were scientific top-dogs does not guarantee you the same status without working for it. You have to compete and prove yourselves worthy. So when the industry brings them face-to-face with reality they lose heart and start blaming everybody else for their predicament. 3) Americans are averse to hard-work. Here the Chinese/Indians wipe the floor with them. It is a standard joke in the Tech. Industry that while the Chinese/Indians do the actual work, the Americans are only good for bullshitting in Management/Marketing/Sales roles. Whatever happened to the "American Work Ethic"? 4) It is now a truism that much of the Tech Industry work has been "commoditized" and the barrier to entry has gotten lower. Most workers are mere "Craftsmen" rather than "Engineers/Scientists". For example, i have worked alongside PhDs in Physics/Mathematics/Biology etc. and their output was comparable to mine (no PhD) simply because the domain did not need their specialization. Most of the Software Industry is like this. I just wish that the current/future generation of Americans would take a good hard look at themselves and make the necessary changes to their society to build themselves up again instead of blaming "immigrants" and everybody else.

Bubbadoo 7y ago
Unfortunately, you have just described the stereotypical American engineer and the main reason why managers here from other countries, such as India and China, will rarely hire an American for a domestic position. I can tell you, first hand, this stereotype is not durable nor applicable. I agree, most American-born students tend to go towards the 'soft' skills, such as marketing or sales. But many people I'll also give you, Americans aren't the best at rote learning, ie., memorizing texts. I'm not going conclude by saying American-born engineers are getting maligned, only those critical points you allege as being endemic to US engineers are applicable to engineers everywhere.
- truth_be_told 7y ago
  My intent was to shine a spotlight on a specific mindset (whether real or imagined, the external effect is the same) which affects Engineers/Management in the Tech. Industry. One has to face realities on the ground whether one likes it or not. Note that what i described above exists in the "middle strata" i.e. the vast majority of work/jobs which have been commoditized and thus has a lower barrier to entry. As an example, i may consider myself as an experienced super-duper "Systems Programmer"(limited jobs) but given that the number of jobs in "Web Development" are at-least a few orders of magnitude greater than in "Systems Development", i would need to learn Web Technologies and compete with kids half my age if i want to earn a salary and keep a roof over my head. Generalize this to competing with developers throughout the world and i have a major problem. Therefore in order to make myself more attractive to clients i need to bring lots more to the table like Experience, Hardwork, Humble mentality, Willingness to learn and Getting things done. The necessary change has to come from within. No amount of blaming H1Bs or others is going to help me. Incidentally, the above viewpoints were explained to me by a Microsoft HR person himself! It came as a shock initially but over time i have come to accept it and learned to change my expectations.

Bubbadoo 7y ago

Unfortunately, you have just described the stereotypical American engineer and the main reason why managers here from other countries, such as India and China, will rarely hire an American for a domestic position. I can tell you, first hand, this stereotype is not durable nor applicable. I agree, most American-born students tend to go towards the 'soft' skills, such as marketing or sales. But many people I'll also give you, Americans aren't the best at rote learning, ie., memorizing texts. I'm not going conclude by saying American-born engineers are getting maligned, only those critical points you allege as being endemic to US engineers are applicable to engineers everywhere.

truth_be_told 7y ago
My intent was to shine a spotlight on a specific mindset (whether real or imagined, the external effect is the same) which affects Engineers/Management in the Tech. Industry. One has to face realities on the ground whether one likes it or not. Note that what i described above exists in the "middle strata" i.e. the vast majority of work/jobs which have been commoditized and thus has a lower barrier to entry. As an example, i may consider myself as an experienced super-duper "Systems Programmer"(limited jobs) but given that the number of jobs in "Web Development" are at-least a few orders of magnitude greater than in "Systems Development", i would need to learn Web Technologies and compete with kids half my age if i want to earn a salary and keep a roof over my head. Generalize this to competing with developers throughout the world and i have a major problem. Therefore in order to make myself more attractive to clients i need to bring lots more to the table like Experience, Hardwork, Humble mentality, Willingness to learn and Getting things done. The necessary change has to come from within. No amount of blaming H1Bs or others is going to help me. Incidentally, the above viewpoints were explained to me by a Microsoft HR person himself! It came as a shock initially but over time i have come to accept it and learned to change my expectations.