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I am a mainland-born Chinese who studied in the US and have been living in HK for over a decade. Just want to share what I saw recently: an overwhelming majorit

I am a mainland-born Chinese who studied in the US and have been living in HK for over a decade. Just want to share what I saw recently: an overwhelming majority of Chinese people who grew up in mainland, regardless of where they live and work now, disapprove of the HK protesters' activities. Many mainland Chinese living in HK, who were largely not interested in politics in the past, have started donating money to pro-government causes. Supportive comments of the mainland government have risen dramatically among private chatters. It seems to me that the HK protesters' messages do not resonate well with most Chinese people.

CogitoCogito 7y ago
May I ask you why you are against the protests? Also would you support the CCP making a public statement taking a step back and agreeing to listen to the protesters' concerns?
- vezycash 7y ago
  Cognitive dissonance?
- tluyben2 7y ago
  Cannot speak for OP but my Chinese mainland friends do not condone of the protests because they simply do not want to rock the boat in any way. Just live life, make money (preferably lots of it, so expensive brands can be bought), raise a family, help your neighbor. Let the gov run the country and keep your interests and discussions out of it. They believe HK will be a better, easier, more organized and more peaceful place when it joins the motherland. Normal people will be able to get houses again as the gov will redistribute them and life will be organized; no need for all this noise and violence.
  - CogitoCogito 7y ago
    But it’s the CCP that’s been pushing changes. If they just stopped pushing for changes between Hong Kong and the mainland, they would largely (if not entirely) placate the protesters. The CCP is the one rocking the boat!
    - tluyben2 7y ago
      Yep, but that is not what mainlanders think. Well, the ones I know. Very small group of well-off engineers. I have not been to HK for a few months now but I have friends in both camps. I am pro HK (but I am western so).
    - uranusjr 7y ago
      It depends on your analogy. Mainland Chinese “learned from experience” that the CCP is the sea (i.e. out of control of people), not part of the boat.
- notwumao 7y ago
  Regarding the second question, I felt humiliated by the protestors' vandalism on the Chinese flag and emblem, which are symbols of our national identity. If my government ended up making concessions to the protestors' demand, it would be a hard pill for me to swallow.
  - cltsang 7y ago
    So what about the problems themselves? The extradition bill? Police brutality? Unjustified arrests? And ultimately, the HK government not answering to the people's demand?
  - Arkanosis 7y ago
    Thank you for sharing your perspective!
  - bitanarch 7y ago
    The original extradition law weakened the strength of the Common Law system of Hong Kong - which, for many Hong Kongers, had concerns on both their ability to continue to do business with international entities; and the rule of law itself. The more recent police brutality concerns Hong Kongers because, well, now your home and the subway station you use everyday is gassed. And the government is doing it. It's now beyond just abstract concepts like the rule of law and it's a concern of your personal safety - even if you're not a protestor. The issue of the Chinese flag / emblem being dirtied / thrown away / etc. during protests may be a concern of many in China... but ignoring the more immediate and practical concerns from everyday HKers is not helpful for anyone. Even from the perspective of the Party, such rhetoric only creates more division and problems down the road.
  - jddj 7y ago
    This got me thinking about my own situation. I've been living abroad in various places for a few years now, and I feel like if someone were to vandalise the flag of my home country in an act of protest I don't think it would trigger much of an emotional response in me at all. No more, probably, than someone vandalising the flag of my sports team (that's to say, not much). I wonder where this emotional attachment to tribal symbols starts and ends. I haven't done much at all in my life (voted a few times, otherwise just lived within the system) to create my home nation. It's just the part of the world where I happened to be born. Even if I had fought hard to change my country and later become proud of what it had become, I would question whether someone defacing a symbol of that country would trigger an emotional response. Am I alone in this? Is this tribalism something which is usually considered innate or learned / forgotten?
- FabHK 7y ago
  > why you are against the protests? Note that GP never stated that. They gave an assessment (correct, in my view) of mainland opinion about the protests, they never said that they subscribed to that opinion.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
olalonde 7y ago
As a Canadian living in Shenzhen, I can confirm that most Chinese people here appear to genuinely resent/disapprove the HK protesters.
bitanarch 7y ago
I'd counter there're three reasons for the strong response from the general public of HK. 1. The suppression tactics used by the HK police affects both protesters and non-protesters. Hong Kong is a very high density place. There was a recent incident where HK police threw tear gas in a residential district in Tai Wai; another one in Shum Shui Po. Let's say I'm not a protester and I live in some high density apartment complex nearby - I get gassed anyway. If I have someone with respiratory issues in my home it could be life threatening. 2. Triads are involved in protester suppressions These people are lawless. If you appear in the wrong place at the wrong time, you get beaten, or worse, sliced. Again, this concerns both protesters and the general public. 3. The government is breaking the rule of law It is one thing for some protesters to break laws, but it's quite another thing for the government to do it. It means the government is not keeping the peace and let everyday people carry on with their lives. Which again, concerns a lot of people who were originally not protesters. Hong Kong is a different case from mainland China, because Hong Kong is a small place. If something bad happens in Causeway Bay, it's very close to home if you're in Wan Chai. Mass protests and crackdowns also happen in China. But let's say it happens in Beijing, it doesn't really concern you if you're in Suzhou or Xi'an.
mushufasa 7y ago
The Hong Kong protests are about democratic values, which were instilled in Hong Kong by the British for 150 years. Ideas like the Magna Carta (everyone has inherent rights and no one is above the law), freedom of the press, Common Law. People who grew up in mainland china do not have that cultural context. Opposite values were taught (no 'inherent rights' outside of government policy, censorship of press to maintain harmony, no Common Law). Unless they have advanced degrees in political theory, I imagine it would be very hard for people who grew up in mainland china to understand why the Hong Kong people are protesting at all, much less sympathize. The values are that far apart.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
  Hong Kong was very far from a democracy for the vast majority of British rule. Patten, the last governor, did start installing some from the 1990s, much to the everlasting ire of the Chinese Communist Party, and it's certainly taken root quite fast. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_development_in_Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_development_in_Hong...
  - FabHK 7y ago
    > Hong Kong was very far from a democracy True, to an extent, yet it had civil liberties and the rule of law to a larger extent than China. So, I think GP's argument still stands.
- apta 7y ago
  > everyone has inherent rights and no one is above the law I don't see how these are "democratic values". They're extremely important things to have obviously, but they're orthogonal to whether the system is democratic or not.
  - pintxo 7y ago
    How many non-democratic systems have you seen, which upheld this and the other principles GP referred to?

CogitoCogito 7y ago

May I ask you why you are against the protests? Also would you support the CCP making a public statement taking a step back and agreeing to listen to the protesters' concerns?

vezycash 7y ago
Cognitive dissonance?
tluyben2 7y ago
Cannot speak for OP but my Chinese mainland friends do not condone of the protests because they simply do not want to rock the boat in any way. Just live life, make money (preferably lots of it, so expensive brands can be bought), raise a family, help your neighbor. Let the gov run the country and keep your interests and discussions out of it. They believe HK will be a better, easier, more organized and more peaceful place when it joins the motherland. Normal people will be able to get houses again as the gov will redistribute them and life will be organized; no need for all this noise and violence.
- CogitoCogito 7y ago
  But it’s the CCP that’s been pushing changes. If they just stopped pushing for changes between Hong Kong and the mainland, they would largely (if not entirely) placate the protesters. The CCP is the one rocking the boat!
  - tluyben2 7y ago
    Yep, but that is not what mainlanders think. Well, the ones I know. Very small group of well-off engineers. I have not been to HK for a few months now but I have friends in both camps. I am pro HK (but I am western so).
  - uranusjr 7y ago
    It depends on your analogy. Mainland Chinese “learned from experience” that the CCP is the sea (i.e. out of control of people), not part of the boat.
notwumao 7y ago
Regarding the second question, I felt humiliated by the protestors' vandalism on the Chinese flag and emblem, which are symbols of our national identity. If my government ended up making concessions to the protestors' demand, it would be a hard pill for me to swallow.
- cltsang 7y ago
  So what about the problems themselves? The extradition bill? Police brutality? Unjustified arrests? And ultimately, the HK government not answering to the people's demand?
- Arkanosis 7y ago
  Thank you for sharing your perspective!
- bitanarch 7y ago
  The original extradition law weakened the strength of the Common Law system of Hong Kong - which, for many Hong Kongers, had concerns on both their ability to continue to do business with international entities; and the rule of law itself. The more recent police brutality concerns Hong Kongers because, well, now your home and the subway station you use everyday is gassed. And the government is doing it. It's now beyond just abstract concepts like the rule of law and it's a concern of your personal safety - even if you're not a protestor. The issue of the Chinese flag / emblem being dirtied / thrown away / etc. during protests may be a concern of many in China... but ignoring the more immediate and practical concerns from everyday HKers is not helpful for anyone. Even from the perspective of the Party, such rhetoric only creates more division and problems down the road.
- jddj 7y ago
  This got me thinking about my own situation. I've been living abroad in various places for a few years now, and I feel like if someone were to vandalise the flag of my home country in an act of protest I don't think it would trigger much of an emotional response in me at all. No more, probably, than someone vandalising the flag of my sports team (that's to say, not much). I wonder where this emotional attachment to tribal symbols starts and ends. I haven't done much at all in my life (voted a few times, otherwise just lived within the system) to create my home nation. It's just the part of the world where I happened to be born. Even if I had fought hard to change my country and later become proud of what it had become, I would question whether someone defacing a symbol of that country would trigger an emotional response. Am I alone in this? Is this tribalism something which is usually considered innate or learned / forgotten?
FabHK 7y ago
> why you are against the protests? Note that GP never stated that. They gave an assessment (correct, in my view) of mainland opinion about the protests, they never said that they subscribed to that opinion.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

olalonde 7y ago

As a Canadian living in Shenzhen, I can confirm that most Chinese people here appear to genuinely resent/disapprove the HK protesters.

bitanarch 7y ago

I'd counter there're three reasons for the strong response from the general public of HK. 1. The suppression tactics used by the HK police affects both protesters and non-protesters. Hong Kong is a very high density place. There was a recent incident where HK police threw tear gas in a residential district in Tai Wai; another one in Shum Shui Po. Let's say I'm not a protester and I live in some high density apartment complex nearby - I get gassed anyway. If I have someone with respiratory issues in my home it could be life threatening. 2. Triads are involved in protester suppressions These people are lawless. If you appear in the wrong place at the wrong time, you get beaten, or worse, sliced. Again, this concerns both protesters and the general public. 3. The government is breaking the rule of law It is one thing for some protesters to break laws, but it's quite another thing for the government to do it. It means the government is not keeping the peace and let everyday people carry on with their lives. Which again, concerns a lot of people who were originally not protesters. Hong Kong is a different case from mainland China, because Hong Kong is a small place. If something bad happens in Causeway Bay, it's very close to home if you're in Wan Chai. Mass protests and crackdowns also happen in China. But let's say it happens in Beijing, it doesn't really concern you if you're in Suzhou or Xi'an.

mushufasa 7y ago

The Hong Kong protests are about democratic values, which were instilled in Hong Kong by the British for 150 years. Ideas like the Magna Carta (everyone has inherent rights and no one is above the law), freedom of the press, Common Law. People who grew up in mainland china do not have that cultural context. Opposite values were taught (no 'inherent rights' outside of government policy, censorship of press to maintain harmony, no Common Law). Unless they have advanced degrees in political theory, I imagine it would be very hard for people who grew up in mainland china to understand why the Hong Kong people are protesting at all, much less sympathize. The values are that far apart.

9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
Hong Kong was very far from a democracy for the vast majority of British rule. Patten, the last governor, did start installing some from the 1990s, much to the everlasting ire of the Chinese Communist Party, and it's certainly taken root quite fast. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_development_in_Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_development_in_Hong...
- FabHK 7y ago
  > Hong Kong was very far from a democracy True, to an extent, yet it had civil liberties and the rule of law to a larger extent than China. So, I think GP's argument still stands.
apta 7y ago
> everyone has inherent rights and no one is above the law I don't see how these are "democratic values". They're extremely important things to have obviously, but they're orthogonal to whether the system is democratic or not.
- pintxo 7y ago
  How many non-democratic systems have you seen, which upheld this and the other principles GP referred to?