4 ms·

Perhaps it might also help if the media etc. stopped acting as if being born male (particularly white and male) is some kind of horrendous original sin?

ZeroGravitas 7y ago
What circles do you move in that this is considered to be the case? To me it sounds like a Fox news viewer complaining about caravans of Muslims coming across the Mexican border to join MS-13. It says more about your choices in what media sources to use to get a hit of anger than it does about objective reality. I mean it sounds like a white nationalist talking point, but it also sounds like you believe it.
- growlist 7y ago
  The media etc. is absolutely awash with it, to the point where I pretty much consider dismissals of the evidence of my own eyes as gaslighting. I've given up on all contemporary TV and film because the virtue signalling is obnoxious and incessant. And the response to someone pointing it out is usually accusations of racism, misogyny etc. I'd say this pretty much describes your response to me...
  - octernion 7y ago
    > evidence [citation needed] if you give up on _all_ contemporary media as a result of your persecution complex, you might want to re-examine your beliefs.
    - growlist 7y ago
      Believe me I've tried - I love TV and film, but cannot get very far before the obligatory strong, independent and sassy minority group representative appears to deliver their identity politics sermon. No thanks! It's patronising and boring. Reminder: The Alien franchise managed to have a strong female lead and be one of the best sci-fi series ever, and all without including the barely disguised sociology lectures. Go back and look at films from the 60s-00s - many were able to integrate minority characters/themes etc. with charm and subtlety, and managed to avoid the contemporary subtle as a brick approach. We're at the point where gems like Blazing Saddles could never be made due to the po-faced, finger wagging authoritarianism of the PC establishment.
      - octernion 7y ago
        um, moving past needing "charm and subtlety" to include minorities is one of the huge advances of cinema in the last several decades. again, you seriously should reconsider your identity politics if you think of any popular tv/movies in our current day as a "sermon." many people (including myself) who grew up with those same movies (and i appreciate blazing saddles & alien as much as anyone) do not find themselves at odds with the current ideological landscape.
      - stronglikedan 7y ago
        I struggled to get through the latest incarnation of The Mist because of this very thing. I like to think that this is what got it cancelled, since it was an otherwise cool concept, just ruined.
  - DFHippie 7y ago
    Well, here's another white male from North America who has lived here for many decades but who lives in a very different world from you. I urge you to consider dispassionately how this could be. Don't dismiss it immediately as "virtue signaling" or "gaslighting". Assume that I am sincere in my beliefs and accurate in my observations -- maybe you are accurate as well; I have observed North America and different times and places. Now consider how it is that you and I perceive the same place so differently.
  - davinic 7y ago
    You seem determined to play the role of a victim. No one has accused you of anything but perhaps picking bad media sources. "The media" is not a monolith and you've failed to provide even one piece of evidence for your assertion.
- subjectsigma 7y ago
  Make of this what you will: https://www.salon.com/2015/12/22/white_men_must_be_stopped_the_very_future_of_the_planet_depends_on_it_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2015/12/22/white_men_must_be_stopped_t... https://archive.fo/lmHPC https://archive.fo/lmHPC https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/don-lemon-terror-threat/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/don-lemon-terror-threat/ https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2018/06/10/why_can039t_we_hate_men_444470.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2018/06/10/why_can039t_we_... (Sorry, couldn't find something without a paywall) https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/26/politics/michael-moore-2016-election-don-lemon/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/26/politics/michael-moore-2016-e... https://kcjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/nungesser-complaint.pdf https://kcjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/nungesser-comp... Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w31B49W03io https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w31B49W03io and see how many times the phrase "uneducated white men" is said with a sneer. https://www.chicagoreporter.com/the-us-white-majority-will-soon-disappear-forever/ https://www.chicagoreporter.com/the-us-white-majority-will-s... https://lithub.com/do-we-even-need-men/ https://lithub.com/do-we-even-need-men/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/308135/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end... https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/17/row-after-university-of-york-cancels-international-mens-day-event https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/17/row-after-...
krastanov 7y ago
My media bubble is WSJ, NYT, WaPo, NPR, Fox, and Al Jazeera (but I rarely read opinion pieces). None of these behave the way you suggested. Except that Fox has some of their opinion (non journalist) people that blame the media of such behavior.
AlexandrB 7y ago
As a white male living in North America, I've never felt the way you're describing. Consider that perhaps the point these sources are trying to make is a little more subtle than: "white man bad". On the other hand, read some accounts[1] of how ethnic minorities (even affluent ones) are treated every day. That's someone actually being treated as if the circumstances of their birth are an original sin. [1] https://www.latimes.com/opinion/livable-city/la-oe-brown-racism-taxi-uber-lyft-201812-story.html https://www.latimes.com/opinion/livable-city/la-oe-brown-rac...
jasonlotito 7y ago
No. None of the media I partake in makes me feel that way at all. Can you point to mass examples of this?
- growlist 7y ago
  UK media is awash with it.
  - jasonlotito 7y ago
    I'm in the US. I don't see it in the US. Can you point to examples of this? UK specific is fine. Note, you keep repeating "the media" and have yet to produce the evidence to support this. I know you can't, but I'm giving you the opportunity to present it. The best you've been able to do is point out where media doesn't make males being born a sin (so, a counter-point to what you are saying).

ZeroGravitas 7y ago

What circles do you move in that this is considered to be the case? To me it sounds like a Fox news viewer complaining about caravans of Muslims coming across the Mexican border to join MS-13. It says more about your choices in what media sources to use to get a hit of anger than it does about objective reality. I mean it sounds like a white nationalist talking point, but it also sounds like you believe it.

growlist 7y ago
The media etc. is absolutely awash with it, to the point where I pretty much consider dismissals of the evidence of my own eyes as gaslighting. I've given up on all contemporary TV and film because the virtue signalling is obnoxious and incessant. And the response to someone pointing it out is usually accusations of racism, misogyny etc. I'd say this pretty much describes your response to me...
- octernion 7y ago
  > evidence [citation needed] if you give up on _all_ contemporary media as a result of your persecution complex, you might want to re-examine your beliefs.
  - growlist 7y ago
    Believe me I've tried - I love TV and film, but cannot get very far before the obligatory strong, independent and sassy minority group representative appears to deliver their identity politics sermon. No thanks! It's patronising and boring. Reminder: The Alien franchise managed to have a strong female lead and be one of the best sci-fi series ever, and all without including the barely disguised sociology lectures. Go back and look at films from the 60s-00s - many were able to integrate minority characters/themes etc. with charm and subtlety, and managed to avoid the contemporary subtle as a brick approach. We're at the point where gems like Blazing Saddles could never be made due to the po-faced, finger wagging authoritarianism of the PC establishment.
    - octernion 7y ago
      um, moving past needing "charm and subtlety" to include minorities is one of the huge advances of cinema in the last several decades. again, you seriously should reconsider your identity politics if you think of any popular tv/movies in our current day as a "sermon." many people (including myself) who grew up with those same movies (and i appreciate blazing saddles & alien as much as anyone) do not find themselves at odds with the current ideological landscape.
    - stronglikedan 7y ago
      I struggled to get through the latest incarnation of The Mist because of this very thing. I like to think that this is what got it cancelled, since it was an otherwise cool concept, just ruined.
- DFHippie 7y ago
  Well, here's another white male from North America who has lived here for many decades but who lives in a very different world from you. I urge you to consider dispassionately how this could be. Don't dismiss it immediately as "virtue signaling" or "gaslighting". Assume that I am sincere in my beliefs and accurate in my observations -- maybe you are accurate as well; I have observed North America and different times and places. Now consider how it is that you and I perceive the same place so differently.
- davinic 7y ago
  You seem determined to play the role of a victim. No one has accused you of anything but perhaps picking bad media sources. "The media" is not a monolith and you've failed to provide even one piece of evidence for your assertion.
subjectsigma 7y ago
Make of this what you will: https://www.salon.com/2015/12/22/white_men_must_be_stopped_the_very_future_of_the_planet_depends_on_it_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2015/12/22/white_men_must_be_stopped_t... https://archive.fo/lmHPC https://archive.fo/lmHPC https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/don-lemon-terror-threat/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/don-lemon-terror-threat/ https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2018/06/10/why_can039t_we_hate_men_444470.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2018/06/10/why_can039t_we_... (Sorry, couldn't find something without a paywall) https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/26/politics/michael-moore-2016-election-don-lemon/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/26/politics/michael-moore-2016-e... https://kcjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/nungesser-complaint.pdf https://kcjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/nungesser-comp... Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w31B49W03io https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w31B49W03io and see how many times the phrase "uneducated white men" is said with a sneer. https://www.chicagoreporter.com/the-us-white-majority-will-soon-disappear-forever/ https://www.chicagoreporter.com/the-us-white-majority-will-s... https://lithub.com/do-we-even-need-men/ https://lithub.com/do-we-even-need-men/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/308135/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end... https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/17/row-after-university-of-york-cancels-international-mens-day-event https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/17/row-after-...

krastanov 7y ago

My media bubble is WSJ, NYT, WaPo, NPR, Fox, and Al Jazeera (but I rarely read opinion pieces). None of these behave the way you suggested. Except that Fox has some of their opinion (non journalist) people that blame the media of such behavior.

AlexandrB 7y ago

As a white male living in North America, I've never felt the way you're describing. Consider that perhaps the point these sources are trying to make is a little more subtle than: "white man bad". On the other hand, read some accounts[1] of how ethnic minorities (even affluent ones) are treated every day. That's someone actually being treated as if the circumstances of their birth are an original sin. [1] https://www.latimes.com/opinion/livable-city/la-oe-brown-racism-taxi-uber-lyft-201812-story.html https://www.latimes.com/opinion/livable-city/la-oe-brown-rac...

jasonlotito 7y ago

No. None of the media I partake in makes me feel that way at all. Can you point to mass examples of this?

growlist 7y ago
UK media is awash with it.
- jasonlotito 7y ago
  I'm in the US. I don't see it in the US. Can you point to examples of this? UK specific is fine. Note, you keep repeating "the media" and have yet to produce the evidence to support this. I know you can't, but I'm giving you the opportunity to present it. The best you've been able to do is point out where media doesn't make males being born a sin (so, a counter-point to what you are saying).