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In response to all the comments referencing "Idiocracy" - I can't believe so many of you are taking that movie seriously. 1. Even if the effect it claims is tr

by lukev 16y ago

In response to all the comments referencing "Idiocracy" - I can't believe so many of you are taking that movie seriously. 1. Even if the effect it claims is true, it wouldn't result in an "everyone's stupid" society, it would result in a split society with an even more distinct intellectual upper and lower class. Not desirable, to be sure, but not necessarily dangerous to the human race as a whole. 2. What we arrogantly see as the "stupidity" of the lower classes is almost entirely caused by social and environmental factors. Genetically, they're not necessarily inferior at all. Even if genetic drift COULD occur within just a few generations, which I doubt, genetic effects would be entirely dominated by environmental factors such as education, nutrition, and socialization. If you pulled a healthy baby from the worst white trash family at birth, raised it well and gave it an education, there's no reason to think it would be any less intelligent than you.

shin_lao 16y ago
I disagree about 2. I really think that there's a genetic factor into how intelligent you can become, and that the part of this genetic factor is everything but minor. The catch is that you need the proper life experience to unlock your potential.
- lukev 16y ago
  A genetic factor, sure, but the question is not whether there is a genetic factor, but whether that is what is selected on, given the "stupid/lower class people reproduce faster" assumption.
cullenking 16y ago
The problem with babies from the "worst white trash family" are environmental and maybe genetic from past environmental factors. How many white trash parents have you seen driving around smoking with their kids in the car? Fetal alcohol syndrom? etc etc.
- lukev 16y ago
  And as bad as smoke and fetal alcohol syndrome are, they aren't genetic. A mentally retarded person will have perfectly normal offspring, provided their disability is environmental. Evolution works by selection. Darwin, not Lamark.
  - sudont 16y ago
    There is some amount of chromosomal damage that will now occur with our cheap, plastic materials and water tables full of pharmaceuticals.
  - schwabacher 16y ago
    There are some epigenetic changes like DNA methylation that can be inherited from parents and effect gene expression in children. Things like diet, smoking, and the age of a mother almost certainly have some effect on the development of her children. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics I find the fact that your genes don't get a fresh start with your children pretty sobering. Kind of makes you want to go exercise :) Edit: had a hash tag in the wikipedia link I didnt mean to put there
pohl 16y ago
The movie actually did depict a split society. At the top was President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho, who operated at a much higher cognitive plane than Frito the lawyer, who operated at a much higher level than the masses - for example the woman operating the Fischer Price diagnostic panel at St. God's Hospital, where Dr. Lexus was clearly high-functioning - presumably well above his undepicted & "tarded" ex-wife, a pilot.
- lukev 16y ago
  But everyone was still sub-average by "normal" standards. If this actually happens, you're likely to see an intellectual upper class that is more intelligent than the current average. Selection works both ways, and even if the intelligentsia reproduce more slowly, they still reproduce (mostly) within their own group, leading to ever-smarter offspring. Assuming genetic factors dominate intelligence anyway.
  - pohl 16y ago
    But everyone was still sub-average by "normal" standards. You mean that everyone was sub-average by todays normal standards. But what was normal in the year 1435 is very different from what is normal in the year 2011, and again very different from what the norm will be in the year 2505. Had Trevor and Carol been able to produce offspring, they (and the rest of their class) might have been able to bolster the norm. Alas, Trevor tragically met his demise with a heart attack whilst masturbating to produce sperm to artificially inseminate her. Meanwhile, Clevon kept cleaving on, appreciably moving the needle on what 'norm' means. Edit: We didn't get to see much inside of the Brawndo corporation, where all of the power was concentrated, so we can't be sure that President Camacho was the brightest around. All we got to see was the CEO, who may not have been the brightest bulb in the drawer. The descendants of the medical researchers bent on curing hair-loss and prolonging erections probably work in the bowels of that - or some other - corporation.

by lukev 16y ago

shin_lao 16y ago

I disagree about 2. I really think that there's a genetic factor into how intelligent you can become, and that the part of this genetic factor is everything but minor. The catch is that you need the proper life experience to unlock your potential.

lukev 16y ago
A genetic factor, sure, but the question is not whether there is a genetic factor, but whether that is what is selected on, given the "stupid/lower class people reproduce faster" assumption.

cullenking 16y ago

The problem with babies from the "worst white trash family" are environmental and maybe genetic from past environmental factors. How many white trash parents have you seen driving around smoking with their kids in the car? Fetal alcohol syndrom? etc etc.

lukev 16y ago
And as bad as smoke and fetal alcohol syndrome are, they aren't genetic. A mentally retarded person will have perfectly normal offspring, provided their disability is environmental. Evolution works by selection. Darwin, not Lamark.
- sudont 16y ago
  There is some amount of chromosomal damage that will now occur with our cheap, plastic materials and water tables full of pharmaceuticals.
- schwabacher 16y ago
  There are some epigenetic changes like DNA methylation that can be inherited from parents and effect gene expression in children. Things like diet, smoking, and the age of a mother almost certainly have some effect on the development of her children. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics I find the fact that your genes don't get a fresh start with your children pretty sobering. Kind of makes you want to go exercise :) Edit: had a hash tag in the wikipedia link I didnt mean to put there

pohl 16y ago

The movie actually did depict a split society. At the top was President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho, who operated at a much higher cognitive plane than Frito the lawyer, who operated at a much higher level than the masses - for example the woman operating the Fischer Price diagnostic panel at St. God's Hospital, where Dr. Lexus was clearly high-functioning - presumably well above his undepicted & "tarded" ex-wife, a pilot.

lukev 16y ago
But everyone was still sub-average by "normal" standards. If this actually happens, you're likely to see an intellectual upper class that is more intelligent than the current average. Selection works both ways, and even if the intelligentsia reproduce more slowly, they still reproduce (mostly) within their own group, leading to ever-smarter offspring. Assuming genetic factors dominate intelligence anyway.
- pohl 16y ago
  But everyone was still sub-average by "normal" standards. You mean that everyone was sub-average by todays normal standards. But what was normal in the year 1435 is very different from what is normal in the year 2011, and again very different from what the norm will be in the year 2505. Had Trevor and Carol been able to produce offspring, they (and the rest of their class) might have been able to bolster the norm. Alas, Trevor tragically met his demise with a heart attack whilst masturbating to produce sperm to artificially inseminate her. Meanwhile, Clevon kept cleaving on, appreciably moving the needle on what 'norm' means. Edit: We didn't get to see much inside of the Brawndo corporation, where all of the power was concentrated, so we can't be sure that President Camacho was the brightest around. All we got to see was the CEO, who may not have been the brightest bulb in the drawer. The descendants of the medical researchers bent on curing hair-loss and prolonging erections probably work in the bowels of that - or some other - corporation.