3 ms·

I can understand what you are saying, but the thing I always wonder about is why should the universe be deterministic? We're used to determinism because we exp

I can understand what you are saying, but the thing I always wonder about is why should the universe be deterministic? We're used to determinism because we experience that at a macro level. However, why should we prefer that condition at a QM level? To a certain extent, I'm actually more comfortable with the idea that it isn't deterministic and that all determinism essentially derives from chaos theory: things happen randomly, but the system constrains its output. I guess I don't really have a reason for my preference other than thinking, if a universe pops into existence, what would I expect it to act like? Deterministic, or indeterministic? It just seems simpler to assume indeterministic because I can't think of a reason why it should be deterministic. Edit: I know that chaos theory is built on determinism :-) I'm thinking of things like strange attractors. My ignorance leaves me with no better word for what I'm talking about, unfortunately.

roenxi 7y ago
Everything else we've ever observed has initially appeared to be random. There was a long slow process of proving individual bits weren't random and then a sudden jump in progress after several thousand years of recorded history when Newton and contempories showed it all to pseudorandom. That is to say, it was never obvious that the macro level was deterministic. For a statistics perspective, given the youthful nature of Quantum Mechanics as a field it is more likely than not that we're observing a deterministic phenomenon from the wrong angle, so it appears random. This is because that is how first contact played out with pretty much everything else.
- mikekchar 7y ago
  It's an interesting way to think about it, but I have to say that even after reading what you've typed I don't really see it. Although Newton and contemporaries had mathematical rigour, there always seemed to be order in the universe. If you push on a cart softly, it moves slowly. If you push on it hard, it moves quickly. In fact, Gallileo had to show that heavier things do not fall faster than light things as it was imagined to be. Never did we drop a ball and expect its speed to be random. Even the word "random" comes from the mid 1600s and it comes from the idea to run quickly (i.e. without paying attention to a purpose). I don't even think the concept of randomness as we see it was a concept long ago. Everything was either a result of something else, or pre-ordained. Things that you couldn't explain were "God's purpose". Something with no purpose and no mechanism would be pretty alien to early thinkers, I think.
  - pfortuny 7y ago
    I guess the Latin term “alea” is exactly what the English “random” means.
    - alfonsodev 7y ago
      nice, never though about it, in Spanish random is "aleatorio"

roenxi 7y ago

Everything else we've ever observed has initially appeared to be random. There was a long slow process of proving individual bits weren't random and then a sudden jump in progress after several thousand years of recorded history when Newton and contempories showed it all to pseudorandom. That is to say, it was never obvious that the macro level was deterministic. For a statistics perspective, given the youthful nature of Quantum Mechanics as a field it is more likely than not that we're observing a deterministic phenomenon from the wrong angle, so it appears random. This is because that is how first contact played out with pretty much everything else.

mikekchar 7y ago
It's an interesting way to think about it, but I have to say that even after reading what you've typed I don't really see it. Although Newton and contemporaries had mathematical rigour, there always seemed to be order in the universe. If you push on a cart softly, it moves slowly. If you push on it hard, it moves quickly. In fact, Gallileo had to show that heavier things do not fall faster than light things as it was imagined to be. Never did we drop a ball and expect its speed to be random. Even the word "random" comes from the mid 1600s and it comes from the idea to run quickly (i.e. without paying attention to a purpose). I don't even think the concept of randomness as we see it was a concept long ago. Everything was either a result of something else, or pre-ordained. Things that you couldn't explain were "God's purpose". Something with no purpose and no mechanism would be pretty alien to early thinkers, I think.
- pfortuny 7y ago
  I guess the Latin term “alea” is exactly what the English “random” means.
  - alfonsodev 7y ago
    nice, never though about it, in Spanish random is "aleatorio"