4 ms·

> Giving everyone equal rights and opportunities is a supposedly founding principle of your "democracy". It's not 'my' democracy - I and my ancestors remained

by deogeo 7y ago

> Giving everyone equal rights and opportunities is a supposedly founding principle of your "democracy". It's not 'my' democracy - I and my ancestors remained in Europe. And lets not engage in revisionist history - that founding principle was explicitly limited to "free White persons of good character" [1]. While the at once ineffective and cruel manner the US enforces its borders leaves much to be desired, that doesn't make the very concept of controlling immigration unjust. There are countries other besides the US to immigrate to. As for your comparison with Nazi Germany, perhaps it would have more weight if the US was incredibly restrictive with immigration (and, as always in these matters, ignoring that people weren't scrambling to get into Nazi Germany..) But as it stands, not only does the US have the largest rate of immigration in the world [2] (though not per-capita), but it also grants citizenship to anyone born there - a practice almost exclusive to the Americas [3]. I'm sorry if this reply seems harsh, but I find it utterly mind-boggling how you could compare the Nazi ethno-state, to a country where the majority ethnicity is voluntarily becoming a minority. They are going from 87% white in 1970 [4], to minority-white in 2044 [5]. That's in 74 years, a single lifespan, from overwhelming majority, to minority. Literally the opposite of what Nazi Germany was doing. But if this is comparable to ethnic cleansing, then what does that make almost all other countries? Some sort of ultra-nazis? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migra... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_State... [5] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/us/white-americans-minority-population.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/us/white-americans-minori...

southerntofu 7y ago
Glad we agree on some points. Also your reply does not sound harsh to me but rather like healthy skepticism. > if the US was incredibly restrictive with immigration This is the case! Take a look at ICE raids on workplaces/housing. Look at police and fascist militias preventing migrants passing the southern border from getting help (eg. destroying survival necessities such as water buckets left by humanitarian non-profits). Look at the for-profit business of locking up people (the prison industrial complex) making shit-tons of money on migrant retention centers. I mean if millions of people are demanding now to #AbolishICE, it's precisely because the US has a very harsh policy against immigrants. > But if this is comparable to ethnic cleansing, then what does that make almost all other countries? Some sort of ultra-nazis? Did i say the US government was currently doing ethnic cleansing on its own soil? Sorry that was not my intention. There's plenty subtler ways to destroy people's lives than outright genocide.
- deogeo 7y ago
  I chose the word carefully - the US is definitely, as you say, very cruel with immigration enforcement (due to all the reasons you pointed out), but it is not restrictive, due to the large legal immigration. For example, if they allowed everyone in the world to immigrate, except for 10 guys, but they enforced the border using flamethrowers against those 10 guys, then they would be cruel, but not restrictive. As for implying that you said the US was engaged in anything similar to genocide, that was not my intention either, sorry. The sentiment was more that, if you were to compare the US to Nazi Germany, then almost every other country would compare even closer (on the topic of immigration, at least).

by deogeo 7y ago

southerntofu 7y ago

Glad we agree on some points. Also your reply does not sound harsh to me but rather like healthy skepticism. > if the US was incredibly restrictive with immigration This is the case! Take a look at ICE raids on workplaces/housing. Look at police and fascist militias preventing migrants passing the southern border from getting help (eg. destroying survival necessities such as water buckets left by humanitarian non-profits). Look at the for-profit business of locking up people (the prison industrial complex) making shit-tons of money on migrant retention centers. I mean if millions of people are demanding now to #AbolishICE, it's precisely because the US has a very harsh policy against immigrants. > But if this is comparable to ethnic cleansing, then what does that make almost all other countries? Some sort of ultra-nazis? Did i say the US government was currently doing ethnic cleansing on its own soil? Sorry that was not my intention. There's plenty subtler ways to destroy people's lives than outright genocide.

deogeo 7y ago
I chose the word carefully - the US is definitely, as you say, very cruel with immigration enforcement (due to all the reasons you pointed out), but it is not restrictive, due to the large legal immigration. For example, if they allowed everyone in the world to immigrate, except for 10 guys, but they enforced the border using flamethrowers against those 10 guys, then they would be cruel, but not restrictive. As for implying that you said the US was engaged in anything similar to genocide, that was not my intention either, sorry. The sentiment was more that, if you were to compare the US to Nazi Germany, then almost every other country would compare even closer (on the topic of immigration, at least).