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Oh how I tire of profoundly sensitive people. There is something supremely adult about receiving negative (qualified) criticism well. As a senior developer thi

Oh how I tire of profoundly sensitive people. There is something supremely adult about receiving negative (qualified) criticism well. As a senior developer this is perhaps most evident when trying to mentor a developer who cannot read code (or refuses to do so) and any suggestion along the lines of RTFC (read the fucking code) must immediately equal asshole. This is the bane of my career. This is what causes me to look for new employment and cry into my pillow at night.

Zhenya 7y ago
>>Oh how I tire of profoundly sensitive people >>cry into my pillow at night People management is a job as much as writing code; arguable harder since there is usually no right answer.
- austincheney 7y ago
  I am aware. I am in management, possibly longer than you have held your career.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - sgentle 7y ago
    From observing this interaction, it seems to me that your quickness to assert superiority is a likely explanation for your criticism being taken badly. Constructive criticism makes the other person better. Do you want them to be better? Or do you want to be better than them?
    - austincheney 7y ago
      I do not assert superiority and I also don't make baseless assumptions about strangers on the internet. > Constructive criticism makes the other person better. I agree.
      - sgentle 7y ago
        > I do not assert superiority and I also don't make baseless assumptions about strangers on the internet. > I am in management, possibly longer than you have held your career. I'm afraid these two statements are not compatible. When you said it was supremely adult to take criticism well, did you mean it? If so, try to take this criticism well: You were rude to the person who commented above me, and to the junior who thinks you're an asshole. You dismissed my comment as baseless, the parent commenter as inexperienced, and your junior dev as "profoundly sensitive". By your telling, your problem is being surrounded by idiots and weaklings, but from where I'm standing the real "bane of your career" is your attitude towards people you see as lesser than yourself.
        austincheney 7y ago
        Criticism can be rude. I am a huge fan of harsh truths. It isn't a good idea coat yourself in the comfort of assumptions. > By your telling, your problem is being surrounded by idiots and weaklings Not idiots. That is not related. I do think of people who have trouble with confrontations as weak. These could be situations that are rude, but not necessarily. Personally, I tend to prefer rudeness to dishonesty. I find it inconvenient when people lie to me and allow me to continue failing merely to save themselves (not me) the inconvenience of a minor correction. I think this is the very nature of what many people might consider to be an asshole though.
        wnmurphy 7y ago
        Here, you should really check out this subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/
delinka 7y ago
RTFC is an asshole response. If they're refusing to read, it's time for the mentor to get in some pair reading time. Scenario: you tell the junior "we have this code that isn't documented. it's for a process that does X, but we need to understand how it goes about doing X. I need you to read and document the code." If they're refusing to do the task assigned, you've got a terrible employee, but you still don't have to be an asshole about it.
- austincheney 7y ago
  You are making several assumptions to qualify to something vague. If a developer doesn't understand the code after reading it the time is ripe for the mentor to get in some pair development time. Refusing to read code isn't that. The junior shouldn't be held to account for their lack of understanding, but they should be destroyed for their lack of effort.
  - leviathant 7y ago
    >they should be destroyed Are you real? Is this a real person?
    - austincheney 7y ago
      What would you do?
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - leviathant 7y ago
        >What would you do? Specific to the topic of this subthread: read the code with them. "I was looking over your commit, and I thought it might be helpful to show you how I approach solving the same problem." And then literally function by function, line by line, I explain why I made the choice I made. And when it makes sense to do so, I compare it to the code being submitted, and I ask, "Do you understand why I would do B instead of A?" until they indicate that they get it. I leave my code in a separate branch, and ask them to push updated code to their branch. I suggest that even though they have a working solution in another branch, that they type in their updates rather than copy and paste. At a high level, I try to find them something better suited for them to do. Sometimes reading the manual (or the style guide, or the code) isn't the best way for that person to learn. So, maybe I help them find a different way of learning. Or maybe that means pointing them to a different role in the company, or having a chat and seeing if there's anyone I know in my network who could better employ them, that's what I do. If this person got hired, they were the best out of a bunch of applicants, so there's usually something worth pursuing. I've helped ecommerce merchandisers pivot to QA roles, front-end devs refocus on backend, backend developers go heavy into infrastructure and deployment... Several times in my career I've been the last stop for the developer that all the other devs have rejected as useless. Sometimes, hey, they're right. Someone got in way over their head and is being dishonest, and you have to level with them and send them on their way. If they're being an asshole, let -them- be the asshole. Even the worst coworker I've had deal with has never had me thinking, "they should be destroyed" - I even felt a little bad as [this particular person] finally got let go, because they had started to turn things around. But I also knew they'd be better suited elsewhere, and we were better off without this person. Several other times, I've seen people on the edge of being fired eventually grow into senior leads, after having some conversations about where they're struggling and what steps they could take to improve. Even people who refused to just read the code came to see past their insecurities and stubbornness, and became better at working with other people. Whether this has been someone in their 20s, or someone in their 50s, my approach has been to help work towards a better solution and solve for a problem... not to tell them to "RTFC or be destroyed". I knew a guy like that. A junior dev in the desk next to mine was struggling with some code, and this dude (notorious for being an asshole if you let him) was yelling at him about how he needs to just figure it out. I was fed up with these interactions, so I stood up and asked the asshole how he'd fix the problem. He stammered a bit, looked at the code a bit, and said he didn't know how to fix the problem either. Well, why are you being a dick about it if you can't help? He walked away, I helped the dev with the issue. I'm going to bring out that e-word here, because it's not just a buzzword to throw around, it's something that is incredibly helpful once you incorporate it into your problem solving: empathy. Find out why that person is struggling and help them.
cm2012 7y ago
YTA
deleted 7y ago
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deleted 7y ago
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Zhenya 7y ago

>>Oh how I tire of profoundly sensitive people >>cry into my pillow at night People management is a job as much as writing code; arguable harder since there is usually no right answer.

austincheney 7y ago
I am aware. I am in management, possibly longer than you have held your career.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- sgentle 7y ago
  From observing this interaction, it seems to me that your quickness to assert superiority is a likely explanation for your criticism being taken badly. Constructive criticism makes the other person better. Do you want them to be better? Or do you want to be better than them?
  - austincheney 7y ago
    I do not assert superiority and I also don't make baseless assumptions about strangers on the internet. > Constructive criticism makes the other person better. I agree.
    - sgentle 7y ago
      > I do not assert superiority and I also don't make baseless assumptions about strangers on the internet. > I am in management, possibly longer than you have held your career. I'm afraid these two statements are not compatible. When you said it was supremely adult to take criticism well, did you mean it? If so, try to take this criticism well: You were rude to the person who commented above me, and to the junior who thinks you're an asshole. You dismissed my comment as baseless, the parent commenter as inexperienced, and your junior dev as "profoundly sensitive". By your telling, your problem is being surrounded by idiots and weaklings, but from where I'm standing the real "bane of your career" is your attitude towards people you see as lesser than yourself.
      - austincheney 7y ago
        Criticism can be rude. I am a huge fan of harsh truths. It isn't a good idea coat yourself in the comfort of assumptions. > By your telling, your problem is being surrounded by idiots and weaklings Not idiots. That is not related. I do think of people who have trouble with confrontations as weak. These could be situations that are rude, but not necessarily. Personally, I tend to prefer rudeness to dishonesty. I find it inconvenient when people lie to me and allow me to continue failing merely to save themselves (not me) the inconvenience of a minor correction. I think this is the very nature of what many people might consider to be an asshole though.
        wnmurphy 7y ago
        Here, you should really check out this subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/

delinka 7y ago

RTFC is an asshole response. If they're refusing to read, it's time for the mentor to get in some pair reading time. Scenario: you tell the junior "we have this code that isn't documented. it's for a process that does X, but we need to understand how it goes about doing X. I need you to read and document the code." If they're refusing to do the task assigned, you've got a terrible employee, but you still don't have to be an asshole about it.

austincheney 7y ago
You are making several assumptions to qualify to something vague. If a developer doesn't understand the code after reading it the time is ripe for the mentor to get in some pair development time. Refusing to read code isn't that. The junior shouldn't be held to account for their lack of understanding, but they should be destroyed for their lack of effort.
- leviathant 7y ago
  >they should be destroyed Are you real? Is this a real person?
  - austincheney 7y ago
    What would you do?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - leviathant 7y ago
      >What would you do? Specific to the topic of this subthread: read the code with them. "I was looking over your commit, and I thought it might be helpful to show you how I approach solving the same problem." And then literally function by function, line by line, I explain why I made the choice I made. And when it makes sense to do so, I compare it to the code being submitted, and I ask, "Do you understand why I would do B instead of A?" until they indicate that they get it. I leave my code in a separate branch, and ask them to push updated code to their branch. I suggest that even though they have a working solution in another branch, that they type in their updates rather than copy and paste. At a high level, I try to find them something better suited for them to do. Sometimes reading the manual (or the style guide, or the code) isn't the best way for that person to learn. So, maybe I help them find a different way of learning. Or maybe that means pointing them to a different role in the company, or having a chat and seeing if there's anyone I know in my network who could better employ them, that's what I do. If this person got hired, they were the best out of a bunch of applicants, so there's usually something worth pursuing. I've helped ecommerce merchandisers pivot to QA roles, front-end devs refocus on backend, backend developers go heavy into infrastructure and deployment... Several times in my career I've been the last stop for the developer that all the other devs have rejected as useless. Sometimes, hey, they're right. Someone got in way over their head and is being dishonest, and you have to level with them and send them on their way. If they're being an asshole, let -them- be the asshole. Even the worst coworker I've had deal with has never had me thinking, "they should be destroyed" - I even felt a little bad as [this particular person] finally got let go, because they had started to turn things around. But I also knew they'd be better suited elsewhere, and we were better off without this person. Several other times, I've seen people on the edge of being fired eventually grow into senior leads, after having some conversations about where they're struggling and what steps they could take to improve. Even people who refused to just read the code came to see past their insecurities and stubbornness, and became better at working with other people. Whether this has been someone in their 20s, or someone in their 50s, my approach has been to help work towards a better solution and solve for a problem... not to tell them to "RTFC or be destroyed". I knew a guy like that. A junior dev in the desk next to mine was struggling with some code, and this dude (notorious for being an asshole if you let him) was yelling at him about how he needs to just figure it out. I was fed up with these interactions, so I stood up and asked the asshole how he'd fix the problem. He stammered a bit, looked at the code a bit, and said he didn't know how to fix the problem either. Well, why are you being a dick about it if you can't help? He walked away, I helped the dev with the issue. I'm going to bring out that e-word here, because it's not just a buzzword to throw around, it's something that is incredibly helpful once you incorporate it into your problem solving: empathy. Find out why that person is struggling and help them.

cm2012 7y ago

YTA

deleted 7y ago

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