4 ms·

> Today people defend 'basically harmless stuff like: I'm sure there are people (where n > 1) in the world who defend that, but here in The Netherlands this is

by Fnoord 7y ago

> Today people defend 'basically harmless stuff like: I'm sure there are people (where n > 1) in the world who defend that, but here in The Netherlands this is not OK except for Jewish boy circumcision. Which is in a different league than the removal of the clitoris. Physical punishment of children went from 'normal' before 1970 to 'not acceptable' throughout 1980 and 1990. It is now 'very much not acceptable'. In fact, I'd argue this one, like smoking, fits the 'creeping normality' definition although keep in mind I talk about The Netherlands only. I do not know how this developed throughout the rest of the world.

nabla9 7y ago
I'm speaking to HN audience that is not similar to north European audience. https://www.brookings.edu/research/hitting-kids-american-parenting-and-physical-punishment/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/hitting-kids-american-par... > More than 70% of Americans agreed in 2012 that, “it is sometimes necessary to discipline a child with a good, hard spanking.” I was talking about boy circumcision and why in a different league than the removal of the clitoris. Infant body modification for religious reasons is barbaric custom even if it is mostly harmless. You would only few decades of banning boy circumcision and Jews would recognize it as a normal and new generations would think it was silly stupid practice not deeply related to Jewish identity after all.
Thiez 7y ago
Not all female circumcision involves removing the clitorus. It varies, and the least harmful forms involve only a symbolic pin prick. While I strongly oppose all forms of circumcision on babies and children (unless a good medical reason is involved), I think the lightest form of female circumcision is essentiallu much less barbaric than male circumcision. If people practicing female circumcision could be convinced to switch to the lighter forms (perhaps through creeping normality?) that would already be a great improvement, and a good step towards eventually stopping the practice completely. It would be more consistent if male circumcision was treated with the same condemnation that all forms of female circumcision (or 'FGM') seem to receive. Currently the western world criticising female circumcision seems like the pot calling the kettle black.

by Fnoord 7y ago

nabla9 7y ago

I'm speaking to HN audience that is not similar to north European audience. https://www.brookings.edu/research/hitting-kids-american-parenting-and-physical-punishment/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/hitting-kids-american-par... > More than 70% of Americans agreed in 2012 that, “it is sometimes necessary to discipline a child with a good, hard spanking.” I was talking about boy circumcision and why in a different league than the removal of the clitoris. Infant body modification for religious reasons is barbaric custom even if it is mostly harmless. You would only few decades of banning boy circumcision and Jews would recognize it as a normal and new generations would think it was silly stupid practice not deeply related to Jewish identity after all.

Thiez 7y ago

Not all female circumcision involves removing the clitorus. It varies, and the least harmful forms involve only a symbolic pin prick. While I strongly oppose all forms of circumcision on babies and children (unless a good medical reason is involved), I think the lightest form of female circumcision is essentiallu much less barbaric than male circumcision. If people practicing female circumcision could be convinced to switch to the lighter forms (perhaps through creeping normality?) that would already be a great improvement, and a good step towards eventually stopping the practice completely. It would be more consistent if male circumcision was treated with the same condemnation that all forms of female circumcision (or 'FGM') seem to receive. Currently the western world criticising female circumcision seems like the pot calling the kettle black.