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I think lots of places don't have the numbering system that Americans take for granted. In Vietnam my address is something like 422/35/11 Dien Bien Phu, Ward 1

I think lots of places don't have the numbering system that Americans take for granted. In Vietnam my address is something like 422/35/11 Dien Bien Phu, Ward 17, Binh Thanh district, Ho Chi Minh City. The number means "go to the building #422 on the main road and turn down the unnamed road you see there; drive until you see the house numbered 35 and turn down the unnamed road THERE; then proceed to number 11." Make sure you're looking for #422 in Ward 17 and not some other stretch of the same road that might reuse those numbers. Oh, and if you're still using the old address system then I'm actually at 107/11b. ("B" because a single lot was subdivided once upon a time.) Notice there are no zip codes. 99% of web forms outside of Vietnam can't handle my actual address. They require a zip code or disallow the "/" character or don't have room anywhere to write the Ward and District. Last time I checked, Open Street Maps didn't know how to parse my address and find my house. And this is for a country with 100 million people -- more than France, the Netherlands, and Belgium combined. I'm sure other developing countries, also with tens of millions of people, have their own idiosyncrasies that get papered over by Western developers.

peteretep 7y ago
> don't have the numbering system that Americans take for granted I’ll take a second to point out that American addresses are bizarre to many Europeans, for the same reason that your dates are; the room number or suite number is written _after_ the street number. Random addendum: in the UK, a postcode plus a small number will accurately identify most addresses, and when entering an address online you’ll be asked for a postcode and then prompted to choose from about 20 residences or businesses that that could be
- techdragon 7y ago
  A small but possibly interesting addendum to this European/American split on suite/apartment number placement... Here in Australia, they both work fine and seem to be widely interchangeable. Many systems I’ve used don’t force either choice and simply let me put it in as “address line one” and “address line two”. Australia Post, DHL, and basically everyone I’ve ever sent/received mail or parcels using, seem to be totally fine handling both of these formats in Australia.
- hnarn 7y ago
  What you're describing as "American" is official standard in Sweden, ie: > Kungsgatan 10 A LGH 1301 King's street 10, staircase A, apartment 1302 which means third floor (10 being ground, 01 being basement), then second apartment counting clockwise, meaning it could be on your right if there are just two per floor.
  - Svip 7y ago
    That's not "American". The house number comes first in the US, e.g. > 10 Main Street Apt# 150 Which frankly just looks weird. At least the Scandinavian standard has them in a sensible order. In Denmark it could be: > Bredgade 10, 3. th On Wide Street 10, 3rd floor, on the right (th being short for 'til højre'; others being mf (midt for; middle) and tv (til venstre; on the left) -- if more than three on the same floor, just a hyphen followed by a number). Plus our post numbers come before the city name, which is also more useful.
    - Moru 7y ago
      I guess it is similar to date ordering. Sweden has been using yyyy-mm-dd partly because it's easier to sort on dates. Even before the computers, on official documents for archives. Having Street addresses with the house number last also makes sense, first I want to find the right street, then I can start searching for the house number and last the apartment.
    - donatj 7y ago
      Generally with written addresses in America it goes on a second line, which makes sense to my American brain. Different lines do different things, locate the building, then the specific area of the building. > 10 Main Street > Apt. 150
- ginko 7y ago
  I wouldn't call them 'bizarre', just different. You already mentioned the ordering thing. What's also quite different is that in Europe street numbers are usually consecutive while in the US you usually use the top digits for the block number and the bottom digit for the number in the block. That's why you barely see street numbers over 2 digits in Europe while they're usually 4 digits even for small streets in the US. I guess the American system has its advantages when you split up properties. In Europe you sometimes end up with numbers like 12A, 12B etc. that way.
  - skissane 7y ago
    > What's also quite different is that in Europe street numbers are usually consecutive while in the US you usually use the top digits for the block number and the bottom digit for the number in the block Years ago I rented a newly constructed house in an outer suburb of Sydney, Australia. The suburb had (at the time) only been recently developed. The real estate agent told me the address I was renting was "Lot 8 Whatever Rd". I move in and get all the utilities transferred into my name. A couple of months later, I get a notice under my door warning that my electricity is going to be disconnected because I hadn't paid my bill. I found that odd since I had paid it. The next day, come home to find the power is off. Call the real estate agent, who sends out an electrician who discovers someone (presumably the electricity company) has removed the service fuse. He puts it back in. I call up the electricity company to complain. Soon I discover the answer: "Whatever Rd" actually had three separate houses on it all called "Lot 8". I'd actually been paying the electricity bill of the "Lot 8" up the road. I give the electricity company the meter number from my electricity meter and they sent me a bill adjustment, no more problems with them. But, I keep on having problems with mail going missing, and getting other people's mail, because with three "Lot 8"s on one street, the post office doesn't know which one should get the mail, they seem to distribute it randomly between them. I complain to the real estate agent about the street address situation. He says to me: "Nothing the landlord can do about it, street addressing is responsibility of the local council." I sent the local council an email to complain. Their response – "We can't assign new house numbers to that street yet, because development plans have not yet been approved for all the former rural blocks, so we don't know how many street numbers will be needed." I say – "Can't you just work out the maximum number of houses each of those blocks could possibly have, given planning regulations, and reserve that many for them, maybe even a few more for a margin of error?". Their response – "No, we can't do that. Then there might be gaps in the street numbers. Gaps in street numbers are not allowed." They did tell me I could disambiguate my address by adding the development plan (DP) number to it (the DP is the legal plan approved by the government for subdivision of the original rural block of land). So my house was "Lot 8 DP 12345678" and the other "Lot 8"'s were "Lot 8 DP 4567890" etc. I asked how the post office would know what DP number my "Lot 8" was. The council said I should stick a sign out the front, next to the mailbox, with the DP number on it. I didn't stay in that house for long, as soon as the fixed term of the lease was up, moved out. But it did convince me that the American approach is actually superior.
- jaclaz 7y ago
  >... in the UK ... Which I wouldn't use as an example, set aside postal codes (that do work nicely for the postman) actual addresses (meaning actually driving/walking to a given address) are not as straightforward/easy as in continental Europe. See the classic "How to be an Alien" by George Mikes, the seven points in Chapter 21 "How to plan a town" remain IMHO a masterpiece. What really makes me perplex sometimes about our US friends is their way of numbering floors: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/238495/first-floor-vs-ground-floor-usage-origin https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/238495/first-flo... Not entirely unlike when a program (or OS) starts numbering items from 0 when another program (or OS) starts numbering them from 1.
enlyth 7y ago
That's so interesting, thanks for sharing.
zerocrates 7y ago
OpenStreetMap/Nominatim routinely fails to work with simple bog-standard addresses around here, a major metropolitan area in the US. The reason, I believe, is that the city portion of addresses in this area often doesn't match the actual boundaries: locations well outside of the named city or town still have that in their address. Addresses are hard. And they don't necessarily line up as nicely with the data needed to make a map as you might think. And this is just for the "easy" stuff, really.
bobowzki 7y ago
I see an address handling startup in the future!
- IronBacon 7y ago
  I know "what3words", proprietary algorithm with patents, and "plus.codes", from Google with a free license IIRC.
empath75 7y ago
Nicaragua's is amazing in as much as they have neither street names nor numbers in a lot of places An example address: > Donde fue Lacmiel, 2 cuadras arriba, 1/2 cuadra al sur (translated: where previously was located Lacmiel 2 blocks east, 1/2 block south). https://vianica.com/nicaragua/practical-info/14-addresses.html https://vianica.com/nicaragua/practical-info/14-addresses.ht...
zaphirplane 7y ago
> go to the building #422 on the main road and turn down the unnamed road you see there; drive until you see the house numbered 35 and turn down the unnamed road THERE; then proceed to number 11." There are 2 options for after 422 depending on which direction you are facing How is that resolved and understood
- freddie_mercury 7y ago
  No there aren't two directions. There is only one road next to #422. On the other side of the street there might also be a road at #411 but that is (clearly) a different road. These aren't 4 way intersections. Instead it is a main road with what an American would call an alley branching off of it. And the same distinction applies in Vietnamese, I live on a hẻm ("alley") not on a đường ("road" or "street"). These side alleys are almost never big enough for two cars to pass. Sometimes they aren't even big enough for two scooters or bicycles to pass.

peteretep 7y ago

> don't have the numbering system that Americans take for granted I’ll take a second to point out that American addresses are bizarre to many Europeans, for the same reason that your dates are; the room number or suite number is written _after_ the street number. Random addendum: in the UK, a postcode plus a small number will accurately identify most addresses, and when entering an address online you’ll be asked for a postcode and then prompted to choose from about 20 residences or businesses that that could be

techdragon 7y ago
A small but possibly interesting addendum to this European/American split on suite/apartment number placement... Here in Australia, they both work fine and seem to be widely interchangeable. Many systems I’ve used don’t force either choice and simply let me put it in as “address line one” and “address line two”. Australia Post, DHL, and basically everyone I’ve ever sent/received mail or parcels using, seem to be totally fine handling both of these formats in Australia.
hnarn 7y ago
What you're describing as "American" is official standard in Sweden, ie: > Kungsgatan 10 A LGH 1301 King's street 10, staircase A, apartment 1302 which means third floor (10 being ground, 01 being basement), then second apartment counting clockwise, meaning it could be on your right if there are just two per floor.
- Svip 7y ago
  That's not "American". The house number comes first in the US, e.g. > 10 Main Street Apt# 150 Which frankly just looks weird. At least the Scandinavian standard has them in a sensible order. In Denmark it could be: > Bredgade 10, 3. th On Wide Street 10, 3rd floor, on the right (th being short for 'til højre'; others being mf (midt for; middle) and tv (til venstre; on the left) -- if more than three on the same floor, just a hyphen followed by a number). Plus our post numbers come before the city name, which is also more useful.
  - Moru 7y ago
    I guess it is similar to date ordering. Sweden has been using yyyy-mm-dd partly because it's easier to sort on dates. Even before the computers, on official documents for archives. Having Street addresses with the house number last also makes sense, first I want to find the right street, then I can start searching for the house number and last the apartment.
  - donatj 7y ago
    Generally with written addresses in America it goes on a second line, which makes sense to my American brain. Different lines do different things, locate the building, then the specific area of the building. > 10 Main Street > Apt. 150
ginko 7y ago
I wouldn't call them 'bizarre', just different. You already mentioned the ordering thing. What's also quite different is that in Europe street numbers are usually consecutive while in the US you usually use the top digits for the block number and the bottom digit for the number in the block. That's why you barely see street numbers over 2 digits in Europe while they're usually 4 digits even for small streets in the US. I guess the American system has its advantages when you split up properties. In Europe you sometimes end up with numbers like 12A, 12B etc. that way.
- skissane 7y ago
  > What's also quite different is that in Europe street numbers are usually consecutive while in the US you usually use the top digits for the block number and the bottom digit for the number in the block Years ago I rented a newly constructed house in an outer suburb of Sydney, Australia. The suburb had (at the time) only been recently developed. The real estate agent told me the address I was renting was "Lot 8 Whatever Rd". I move in and get all the utilities transferred into my name. A couple of months later, I get a notice under my door warning that my electricity is going to be disconnected because I hadn't paid my bill. I found that odd since I had paid it. The next day, come home to find the power is off. Call the real estate agent, who sends out an electrician who discovers someone (presumably the electricity company) has removed the service fuse. He puts it back in. I call up the electricity company to complain. Soon I discover the answer: "Whatever Rd" actually had three separate houses on it all called "Lot 8". I'd actually been paying the electricity bill of the "Lot 8" up the road. I give the electricity company the meter number from my electricity meter and they sent me a bill adjustment, no more problems with them. But, I keep on having problems with mail going missing, and getting other people's mail, because with three "Lot 8"s on one street, the post office doesn't know which one should get the mail, they seem to distribute it randomly between them. I complain to the real estate agent about the street address situation. He says to me: "Nothing the landlord can do about it, street addressing is responsibility of the local council." I sent the local council an email to complain. Their response – "We can't assign new house numbers to that street yet, because development plans have not yet been approved for all the former rural blocks, so we don't know how many street numbers will be needed." I say – "Can't you just work out the maximum number of houses each of those blocks could possibly have, given planning regulations, and reserve that many for them, maybe even a few more for a margin of error?". Their response – "No, we can't do that. Then there might be gaps in the street numbers. Gaps in street numbers are not allowed." They did tell me I could disambiguate my address by adding the development plan (DP) number to it (the DP is the legal plan approved by the government for subdivision of the original rural block of land). So my house was "Lot 8 DP 12345678" and the other "Lot 8"'s were "Lot 8 DP 4567890" etc. I asked how the post office would know what DP number my "Lot 8" was. The council said I should stick a sign out the front, next to the mailbox, with the DP number on it. I didn't stay in that house for long, as soon as the fixed term of the lease was up, moved out. But it did convince me that the American approach is actually superior.
jaclaz 7y ago
>... in the UK ... Which I wouldn't use as an example, set aside postal codes (that do work nicely for the postman) actual addresses (meaning actually driving/walking to a given address) are not as straightforward/easy as in continental Europe. See the classic "How to be an Alien" by George Mikes, the seven points in Chapter 21 "How to plan a town" remain IMHO a masterpiece. What really makes me perplex sometimes about our US friends is their way of numbering floors: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/238495/first-floor-vs-ground-floor-usage-origin https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/238495/first-flo... Not entirely unlike when a program (or OS) starts numbering items from 0 when another program (or OS) starts numbering them from 1.

enlyth 7y ago

That's so interesting, thanks for sharing.

zerocrates 7y ago

OpenStreetMap/Nominatim routinely fails to work with simple bog-standard addresses around here, a major metropolitan area in the US. The reason, I believe, is that the city portion of addresses in this area often doesn't match the actual boundaries: locations well outside of the named city or town still have that in their address. Addresses are hard. And they don't necessarily line up as nicely with the data needed to make a map as you might think. And this is just for the "easy" stuff, really.

bobowzki 7y ago

I see an address handling startup in the future!

IronBacon 7y ago
I know "what3words", proprietary algorithm with patents, and "plus.codes", from Google with a free license IIRC.

empath75 7y ago

Nicaragua's is amazing in as much as they have neither street names nor numbers in a lot of places An example address: > Donde fue Lacmiel, 2 cuadras arriba, 1/2 cuadra al sur (translated: where previously was located Lacmiel 2 blocks east, 1/2 block south). https://vianica.com/nicaragua/practical-info/14-addresses.html https://vianica.com/nicaragua/practical-info/14-addresses.ht...

zaphirplane 7y ago

> go to the building #422 on the main road and turn down the unnamed road you see there; drive until you see the house numbered 35 and turn down the unnamed road THERE; then proceed to number 11." There are 2 options for after 422 depending on which direction you are facing How is that resolved and understood

freddie_mercury 7y ago
No there aren't two directions. There is only one road next to #422. On the other side of the street there might also be a road at #411 but that is (clearly) a different road. These aren't 4 way intersections. Instead it is a main road with what an American would call an alley branching off of it. And the same distinction applies in Vietnamese, I live on a hẻm ("alley") not on a đường ("road" or "street"). These side alleys are almost never big enough for two cars to pass. Sometimes they aren't even big enough for two scooters or bicycles to pass.