5 ms·

Two faces of Android

19 points by joshfraser 16y ago

mycroftiv 16y ago
It really seems like someone ought to be doing more to try to use Android to publicize free software. I think the majority of Android users now probably have no understanding of the goals and ideals of free open source software, and there is an opportunity to create real public enthusiasm. From a free software perspective, Android is hardly an ideal platform, and carriers and phone manufacturers have a lot of ambivalence about welcoming openness, but I'm still excited by the fact that a lot of people are now walking around with a linux in their pocket.
- generalk 16y ago
  > and there is an opportunity to create real public enthusiasm [about FOSS software] Sorry, there really isn't. And if there ever was, a mobile phone isn't going to do it. Most folks don't know their phone is running Android, they just bought whatever interesting-looking smartphone was in their price range. They barely care about the software their phone is running, let alone the tenants and ideals of a bunch of software hackers regarding their craft.
  - mycroftiv 16y ago
    I completely agree with you about the actual state of the world, but I don't think its a theoretical impossibility to communicate in way that will raise awareness. As an example, consider the amount of mindshare the ideals of the organic foods movement have attained in the mainstream. Producers of organic food have done a good job marketing themselves and trying to put out information they believe supports their values. The concepts of user control and freedom that motivate FOSS have an emotional appeal to many. Many people who aren't professional mechanics and engineers still enjoy taking things apart and fixing them, and can understand access to software source code in a similar way.
  - bitwize 16y ago
    Virgin Mobile is running bus ads that say "You on Android for $25/month". Obviously there is some marketing appeal in being able to offer a phone that runs Android, which means people are aware of the name (even if they may be confusing it with the Motorola Droid specifically).
    - borism 16y ago
      absolutely - most people might not be aware what devices run Android, but they surely heard the name.
  - jokermatt999 16y ago
    In my anecdotal experience, even my non-technical friends with Android phones know they have Android. I think you're right about them not caring about FLOSS ideals, but you may be underestimating Android's brand awareness.
- ZeroGravitas 16y ago
  The ability to search the Appbrain market and exclude proprietary software would be good. A "curated" FLOSS app store that let legitimate forks get ad revenue, but prevented shady cloning would be even better.
Zak 16y ago
Can anyone cite an example of a situation so far where replacing any of the Google apps has been good for the user? It seems to me that Google should work really hard on having its apps be must-haves for most users, then use them as a lever to discourage undesirable behavior like replacing built-in functionality such as tethering with paid services.
- Kevin_Marks 16y ago
  Being able to swap out the phone dialer with a SIP client means my Droid can make and receive calls when I'm on Wifi in Europe, where it's CDMA network doesn't exist.
  - Zak 16y ago
    I'll give this one partial credit: there's no doubt that it's useful. I don't think, however that it meets the parameters of my original question. I think the dialer is part of the open-source Android distribution, and it isn't one of "the Google apps" I had in mind. More importantly, this is a replacement done by the user. Being able to customize your own OS is always (in principle) a benefit. I'm talking about things like AT&T hiding Google Navigation on some of its Android phones to encourage the use of its own paid navigation app.
    - Kevin_Marks 16y ago
      Fair point; I think a lot of the US carrier customisations have been detrimental. What I was getting at in the original post was that we're going to see a lot of things running Android that we didn't expect, and that aren't on Google's roadmap. Avoiding the BizDev tax by replacing some of the Google proprietary apps will come too. For all I know, this is already going on in Asia.
- ZeroGravitas 16y ago
  It seems like the consensus view is that HTC's Sense (and equivalents to a lesser extent) was a definite improvement over stock 1.5/6 but has become less so over time as stock improves. Even as of 2.3 though some stock apps, e.g. the media player are a bit basic, so it's only overall better, not a point-by-point victory. There's also the fact that Samsung could create "tablet" versions of apps without waiting for Google, manufacturers having to replace Google apps on non-phone devices, and ROMs going their own open source way. You could also argue, in a game theory kind of way, that the potential for replacement has aided Android in general (and therefore Android users) even if any particular replacement has been negative.

19 points by joshfraser 16y ago

It really seems like someone ought to be doing more to try to use Android to publicize free software. I think the majority of Android users now probably have no understanding of the goals and ideals of free open source software, and there is an opportunity to create real public enthusiasm. From a free software perspective, Android is hardly an ideal platform, and carriers and phone manufacturers have a lot of ambivalence about welcoming openness, but I'm still excited by the fact that a lot of people are now walking around with a linux in their pocket.

generalk 16y ago
> and there is an opportunity to create real public enthusiasm [about FOSS software] Sorry, there really isn't. And if there ever was, a mobile phone isn't going to do it. Most folks don't know their phone is running Android, they just bought whatever interesting-looking smartphone was in their price range. They barely care about the software their phone is running, let alone the tenants and ideals of a bunch of software hackers regarding their craft.
- mycroftiv 16y ago
  I completely agree with you about the actual state of the world, but I don't think its a theoretical impossibility to communicate in way that will raise awareness. As an example, consider the amount of mindshare the ideals of the organic foods movement have attained in the mainstream. Producers of organic food have done a good job marketing themselves and trying to put out information they believe supports their values. The concepts of user control and freedom that motivate FOSS have an emotional appeal to many. Many people who aren't professional mechanics and engineers still enjoy taking things apart and fixing them, and can understand access to software source code in a similar way.
- bitwize 16y ago
  Virgin Mobile is running bus ads that say "You on Android for $25/month". Obviously there is some marketing appeal in being able to offer a phone that runs Android, which means people are aware of the name (even if they may be confusing it with the Motorola Droid specifically).
  - borism 16y ago
    absolutely - most people might not be aware what devices run Android, but they surely heard the name.
- jokermatt999 16y ago
  In my anecdotal experience, even my non-technical friends with Android phones know they have Android. I think you're right about them not caring about FLOSS ideals, but you may be underestimating Android's brand awareness.
ZeroGravitas 16y ago
The ability to search the Appbrain market and exclude proprietary software would be good. A "curated" FLOSS app store that let legitimate forks get ad revenue, but prevented shady cloning would be even better.

Zak 16y ago

Can anyone cite an example of a situation so far where replacing any of the Google apps has been good for the user? It seems to me that Google should work really hard on having its apps be must-haves for most users, then use them as a lever to discourage undesirable behavior like replacing built-in functionality such as tethering with paid services.

Kevin_Marks 16y ago
Being able to swap out the phone dialer with a SIP client means my Droid can make and receive calls when I'm on Wifi in Europe, where it's CDMA network doesn't exist.
- Zak 16y ago
  I'll give this one partial credit: there's no doubt that it's useful. I don't think, however that it meets the parameters of my original question. I think the dialer is part of the open-source Android distribution, and it isn't one of "the Google apps" I had in mind. More importantly, this is a replacement done by the user. Being able to customize your own OS is always (in principle) a benefit. I'm talking about things like AT&T hiding Google Navigation on some of its Android phones to encourage the use of its own paid navigation app.
  - Kevin_Marks 16y ago
    Fair point; I think a lot of the US carrier customisations have been detrimental. What I was getting at in the original post was that we're going to see a lot of things running Android that we didn't expect, and that aren't on Google's roadmap. Avoiding the BizDev tax by replacing some of the Google proprietary apps will come too. For all I know, this is already going on in Asia.
ZeroGravitas 16y ago
It seems like the consensus view is that HTC's Sense (and equivalents to a lesser extent) was a definite improvement over stock 1.5/6 but has become less so over time as stock improves. Even as of 2.3 though some stock apps, e.g. the media player are a bit basic, so it's only overall better, not a point-by-point victory. There's also the fact that Samsung could create "tablet" versions of apps without waiting for Google, manufacturers having to replace Google apps on non-phone devices, and ROMs going their own open source way. You could also argue, in a game theory kind of way, that the potential for replacement has aided Android in general (and therefore Android users) even if any particular replacement has been negative.