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>Signal will also lose all your messaging history and kick you out of all your group conversations if your phone breaks or you lose it. It also has no usable au

>Signal will also lose all your messaging history and kick you out of all your group conversations if your phone breaks or you lose it. It also has no usable automated backup solution or sync. Depending on one's threat model, this could be considered a feature.

damnyou 7y ago
If your point is that only people with a Mossad threat model should use Signal, I wholeheartedly agree.
- checktheorder 7y ago
  Oh, please. If Mossad really wants my messages, they're not going to give up at the "Oh no, he uses Signal!" step. They're going to go full knee-wrench if they have to. And considering they have a habit of forging my country's passports, don't pretend that me living in another country is a barrier to that. The same goes for my country's government. Our laws are chock-full of "throw him in jail until he gives up the password" allowances to law enforcement. And that's not even getting into the fact that Signal's owners, OWS, are located within the jurisdiction of the "we'll star-chamber NSL you on a moment's notice" US government. But Signal is perfect to stay private against non-nation-state actors. If I want to make sure that my ISP, mobile carrier, etc. can't snoop on my messages, Signal is my phone messenger of choice. Until and unless Facebook is demonstrated to not be on the level regarding Whatsapp's implementation of the Signal protocol, then I'll keep Whatsapp on the list as well. Telegram is not on that list. If my threat model consisted solely of "that guy with the manbun and macbook working on his novel in the coffeeshop", then maybe Telegram would be acceptable. Let me know when Telegram has default and mandatory end-to-end encryption, using a properly-implemented and proven-secure protocol like Signal's, on all clients both mobile and desktop. Until then I'll consider it to be about as secure as SMS - "hilariously not".
  - zzzcpan 7y ago
    > properly-implemented and proven-secure You don't seem to realize this, but your argument is essentially "I trust Signal more", a purely authoritative one. And I don't think there even exists a threat model where anything that Signal offers over competition is important, especially given their obsession with control.
    - checktheorder 7y ago
      I'm glad you picked up on that, because yes, I DO trust Signal more than Telegram. I trust Signal and distrust Telegram for many solid technical reasons. If you want to misinterpret that as "appeal to authority", then go nuts. But frankly, your own argument reeks of government-friendly "If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide" nonsense. So long as Telegram's developers refuse to implement mandatory-and-default end-to-end-encryption with a properly audited protocol and implementation in all clients, I will not use it. And I will discourage friends and family from using it.
      - zzzcpan 7y ago
        > I trust Signal and distrust Telegram for many solid technical reasons. Except there are no solid technical reasons, just trust and distrust, because security people really love to claim authority on how "solid" security things are. The last people on earth you should ask about security are those claiming authority on these issues.
        checktheorder 7y ago
        This is incoherent FUD.
        zzzcpan 7y ago
        It's not. I'm just not going to accept authoritative arguments on security, sorry. If you have actual technical reasons, please give them. If you don't, that's fine too.

damnyou 7y ago

If your point is that only people with a Mossad threat model should use Signal, I wholeheartedly agree.

checktheorder 7y ago
Oh, please. If Mossad really wants my messages, they're not going to give up at the "Oh no, he uses Signal!" step. They're going to go full knee-wrench if they have to. And considering they have a habit of forging my country's passports, don't pretend that me living in another country is a barrier to that. The same goes for my country's government. Our laws are chock-full of "throw him in jail until he gives up the password" allowances to law enforcement. And that's not even getting into the fact that Signal's owners, OWS, are located within the jurisdiction of the "we'll star-chamber NSL you on a moment's notice" US government. But Signal is perfect to stay private against non-nation-state actors. If I want to make sure that my ISP, mobile carrier, etc. can't snoop on my messages, Signal is my phone messenger of choice. Until and unless Facebook is demonstrated to not be on the level regarding Whatsapp's implementation of the Signal protocol, then I'll keep Whatsapp on the list as well. Telegram is not on that list. If my threat model consisted solely of "that guy with the manbun and macbook working on his novel in the coffeeshop", then maybe Telegram would be acceptable. Let me know when Telegram has default and mandatory end-to-end encryption, using a properly-implemented and proven-secure protocol like Signal's, on all clients both mobile and desktop. Until then I'll consider it to be about as secure as SMS - "hilariously not".
- zzzcpan 7y ago
  > properly-implemented and proven-secure You don't seem to realize this, but your argument is essentially "I trust Signal more", a purely authoritative one. And I don't think there even exists a threat model where anything that Signal offers over competition is important, especially given their obsession with control.
  - checktheorder 7y ago
    I'm glad you picked up on that, because yes, I DO trust Signal more than Telegram. I trust Signal and distrust Telegram for many solid technical reasons. If you want to misinterpret that as "appeal to authority", then go nuts. But frankly, your own argument reeks of government-friendly "If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide" nonsense. So long as Telegram's developers refuse to implement mandatory-and-default end-to-end-encryption with a properly audited protocol and implementation in all clients, I will not use it. And I will discourage friends and family from using it.
    - zzzcpan 7y ago
      > I trust Signal and distrust Telegram for many solid technical reasons. Except there are no solid technical reasons, just trust and distrust, because security people really love to claim authority on how "solid" security things are. The last people on earth you should ask about security are those claiming authority on these issues.
      - checktheorder 7y ago
        This is incoherent FUD.
        zzzcpan 7y ago
        It's not. I'm just not going to accept authoritative arguments on security, sorry. If you have actual technical reasons, please give them. If you don't, that's fine too.