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How does one distinguish a legitimate acquired fear of some things vs PTSD? I am prone to feeling anxious in social situations, but I doubt that counts as PTSD.

How does one distinguish a legitimate acquired fear of some things vs PTSD? I am prone to feeling anxious in social situations, but I doubt that counts as PTSD. If the two pigeons had seen people humans be bad to them, it would imo be a natural response to be fearful of humans. I am not trying to diminish the idea that animals have PTSD. I think it is only natural to imagine they do and so I find the title weird - it should rather be a confirmation of what should be a normal thing to assume. I just want to know how one could distinguish between acquired justifiable fear and PTSD.

betenoire 7y ago
In my experience, feels more like a panic attack than general fear or anxiety. I can work through my anxiety, whereas the panic consumes me.
- sachdevap 7y ago
  That sounds like a reasonable way to know it for yourself. But how do you know it for pigeons though? Do they shake violently? Do they show various uncommon behaviors?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
vector_spaces 7y ago
I mean, IANAD, but it might count as PTSD. I think the main differentiator is that PTSD leaves sort of a lasting impression on your nervous system that alters your behavior even when the threat isn't around. For example, in my case, the aspect of my PTSD that most impacts my quality of life today is hypervigilance. I'm constantly scanning for threats, watching people's hands, looking for exits, aware of people coming and going, noticing changes in tones or language, trying to anticipate sources of conflict in social situations before they happen. I'm obsessive about keeping doors locked. I deliberately keep lights dimmed and use noise canceling headphones as much as possible to keep my environment low stimulation. And I can't sleep until I'm completely exhausted because I don't like being impaired. Like I'll take melatonin, and fight the sleepiness until it wears off. This isn't to mention stuff like nightmares, feelings of distrust and the tendency to self-isolate and cut people off. These aren't so much issues for me these days though. And while my description of my hypervigilance might sound pretty dire, I think it's the most under control today that it's ever been. But back to your question, I sort of think of anxiety due to a learned/justifiable fear as something that really only comes into play when the trigger is imminent. But TBH, I prefer to think of this stuff as existing on a continuum. Like, a "learned fear" is just a different shade of PTSD, not something where there's a super well-defined barrier. But again, IANAD, just a patient :)
- sachdevap 7y ago
  Thanks for the detailed response. Must be frustrating I imagine. I hope you feel better with time. I can understand many of your observations, and I would imagine that it is a spectrum. But this only makes the observation of PTSD in other species more muddy. I would imagine there could be some sort of behavioral or physiological observations, and that is what I am hoping we will have some day.

betenoire 7y ago

In my experience, feels more like a panic attack than general fear or anxiety. I can work through my anxiety, whereas the panic consumes me.

sachdevap 7y ago
That sounds like a reasonable way to know it for yourself. But how do you know it for pigeons though? Do they shake violently? Do they show various uncommon behaviors?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

vector_spaces 7y ago

I mean, IANAD, but it might count as PTSD. I think the main differentiator is that PTSD leaves sort of a lasting impression on your nervous system that alters your behavior even when the threat isn't around. For example, in my case, the aspect of my PTSD that most impacts my quality of life today is hypervigilance. I'm constantly scanning for threats, watching people's hands, looking for exits, aware of people coming and going, noticing changes in tones or language, trying to anticipate sources of conflict in social situations before they happen. I'm obsessive about keeping doors locked. I deliberately keep lights dimmed and use noise canceling headphones as much as possible to keep my environment low stimulation. And I can't sleep until I'm completely exhausted because I don't like being impaired. Like I'll take melatonin, and fight the sleepiness until it wears off. This isn't to mention stuff like nightmares, feelings of distrust and the tendency to self-isolate and cut people off. These aren't so much issues for me these days though. And while my description of my hypervigilance might sound pretty dire, I think it's the most under control today that it's ever been. But back to your question, I sort of think of anxiety due to a learned/justifiable fear as something that really only comes into play when the trigger is imminent. But TBH, I prefer to think of this stuff as existing on a continuum. Like, a "learned fear" is just a different shade of PTSD, not something where there's a super well-defined barrier. But again, IANAD, just a patient :)

sachdevap 7y ago
Thanks for the detailed response. Must be frustrating I imagine. I hope you feel better with time. I can understand many of your observations, and I would imagine that it is a spectrum. But this only makes the observation of PTSD in other species more muddy. I would imagine there could be some sort of behavioral or physiological observations, and that is what I am hoping we will have some day.