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If I have to I use WhatsApp (Using Signal's encryption framework) over Telegram as I don't like to use a russian chat app that came up with their own encryption

by dewey 7y ago

If I have to I use WhatsApp (Using Signal's encryption framework) over Telegram as I don't like to use a russian chat app that came up with their own encryption and doesn't even enable encryption by default. It's not just about UX or not doing research.

kjaftaedi 7y ago
End-to-end encryption only encrypts messages in-transit. The messages are still available in plaintext at either endpoint, and to the companies if they want them. Facebook already publicly announced that they are going to use their AI to scan whatsapp messages for content violations (prior to encryption).
- eitland 7y ago
  Dislike Facebook as much as anyone here and expect them to do anything they can come up with as long as they can get away with it but it seems this particular piece was debunked: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2019/08/more_on_backdoo.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2019/08/more_on_backd...
sb057 7y ago
>russian chat app British-Emirati, but same difference.
9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
What's with the massive xenophobia here? It takes one second to find out they are not exactly in bed with the government and you're just left with racist statement.
- dewey 7y ago
  It has nothing to do with xenophobia or racism. When the NSA tapped the dark fibers of Google etc they were also not exactly in bed with the government and yet they found out about the fact afterwards and started encrypting everything only then. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-infiltrates-links-to-yahoo-google-data-centers-worldwide-snowden-documents-say/2013/10/30/e51d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-i...) When you look at the surveillance happening in Russia paired with the unclear status of Telegram's encryption and it being off by default I'd say it's valid to be suspicious.
  - zzzcpan 7y ago
    Telegram is not a Russian company, it has encryption on by default and is literally famous for fighting "scary Russian government" and all those helping Russian government censor it, including the megacorps you for some reason assume are not in bed with the government. And given how fast the west is moving on backdooring mass communications, in a few years Telegram might end up as one of the few unbackdoored apps left standing.
    - dewey 7y ago
      End to end encryption is not on by default, they even say that in their own FAQ. https://core.telegram.org/tsi/e2ee-simple https://core.telegram.org/tsi/e2ee-simple
      - zzzcpan 7y ago
        So? Encryption is still on by default and end-to-end encryption is a joke anyway when distribution of the app is controlled by the app developer. They can only pinky promise that it's there, but they can compromise it silently on a whim. End-to-end encryption can be pretty useful, but just not in Whatsapp, Telegram, Signal or any app with that level of control.
        StavrosK 7y ago
        "So? Only one company can read your chats by default, and privacy is a joke anyway, you need to believe their promises or read the publicly available codebase yourself."
        zzzcpan 7y ago
        Please explain, how do you think making a promise not to read your messages is different from making a promise by the same company to have a working end-to-end encryption and not willing to compromise it, given the company has a complete control over the app and updates you receive? You can't verify any of it nor that it will be like that with the next update.
skinnymuch 7y ago
Brothers who were originally born in Russia made it. What’s with your bigotry?

by dewey 7y ago

kjaftaedi 7y ago

End-to-end encryption only encrypts messages in-transit. The messages are still available in plaintext at either endpoint, and to the companies if they want them. Facebook already publicly announced that they are going to use their AI to scan whatsapp messages for content violations (prior to encryption).

eitland 7y ago
Dislike Facebook as much as anyone here and expect them to do anything they can come up with as long as they can get away with it but it seems this particular piece was debunked: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2019/08/more_on_backdoo.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2019/08/more_on_backd...

sb057 7y ago

>russian chat app British-Emirati, but same difference.

9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago

What's with the massive xenophobia here? It takes one second to find out they are not exactly in bed with the government and you're just left with racist statement.

dewey 7y ago
It has nothing to do with xenophobia or racism. When the NSA tapped the dark fibers of Google etc they were also not exactly in bed with the government and yet they found out about the fact afterwards and started encrypting everything only then. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-infiltrates-links-to-yahoo-google-data-centers-worldwide-snowden-documents-say/2013/10/30/e51d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-i...) When you look at the surveillance happening in Russia paired with the unclear status of Telegram's encryption and it being off by default I'd say it's valid to be suspicious.
- zzzcpan 7y ago
  Telegram is not a Russian company, it has encryption on by default and is literally famous for fighting "scary Russian government" and all those helping Russian government censor it, including the megacorps you for some reason assume are not in bed with the government. And given how fast the west is moving on backdooring mass communications, in a few years Telegram might end up as one of the few unbackdoored apps left standing.
  - dewey 7y ago
    End to end encryption is not on by default, they even say that in their own FAQ. https://core.telegram.org/tsi/e2ee-simple https://core.telegram.org/tsi/e2ee-simple
    - zzzcpan 7y ago
      So? Encryption is still on by default and end-to-end encryption is a joke anyway when distribution of the app is controlled by the app developer. They can only pinky promise that it's there, but they can compromise it silently on a whim. End-to-end encryption can be pretty useful, but just not in Whatsapp, Telegram, Signal or any app with that level of control.
      - StavrosK 7y ago
        "So? Only one company can read your chats by default, and privacy is a joke anyway, you need to believe their promises or read the publicly available codebase yourself."
        zzzcpan 7y ago
        Please explain, how do you think making a promise not to read your messages is different from making a promise by the same company to have a working end-to-end encryption and not willing to compromise it, given the company has a complete control over the app and updates you receive? You can't verify any of it nor that it will be like that with the next update.

skinnymuch 7y ago

Brothers who were originally born in Russia made it. What’s with your bigotry?