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Prisoners Endure a Nightmare 'Gulag' in Lower Manhattan (2018)

61 points by miobrien 7y ago

booleandilemma 7y ago
I’m guessing this is on HN because it’s where Epstein was being held.
- aswanson 7y ago
  Who is that?
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein Well known, well connected guy, busted for sex trafficking children.
    - aswanson 7y ago
      Ugh. Sorry i asked.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - nofjustice 7y ago
    He raped children and was friends with many high profile people, including Donald Trump who is presently directly accused of raping children that Epstein trafficked for him. Epstein was murdered / illegally allowed to commit suicide this morning inside the building linked above, so many of the people implicated in the child rape ring that he led may go free. It's a major news story in the world today. Citations: https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-epstein-unsealed-documents-name-powerful-men-in-sex-ring https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-epstein-unsealed-docum... edit lol hn REALLY doesn't want this comment visible. I will not stop okay? Someone asked a question and they will get an answer. Ya'll can keep deleting my post and I'll keep posting it. I posted this like 10 times and every time within like 5 seconds it is deleted. FUCK YOU SHITS for this. Who fucking does this? Why are you protecting the president from the direct facts that this man led children to him for raping? This has been flagged and I've been banned and everything. Fuck ya'll so much for your constant removal of useful information. You censor the SHIT out of this site Who the fuck thinks any of this matters if you honestly can't explain the context that this man raped children and provided them to the President?! Why the fuck does anything matter any more? Fuck all yall who want to hide the president's child-raping lifestyle from people who ARE ASKING ABOUT IT. Fuck yall sick motherfuckers.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - fuckhnmods 7y ago
    He was a child rapist and trafficker who 'supplied' children to Donald Trump and others who raped them as well. It's a major news story today.
- craftyguy 7y ago
  Yep, and "hacker" "news" has decided that filling the front page with articles about an (alleged, not convicted) sex trafficker is more important today than discussing any actual technology.
  - cripblip 7y ago
    This is an overly negative comment, I work in the tech field and visit HN for tech content, but value and learn from the posting and discussion of other topics. Please ignore these posts if they are not of interest.
Sojuwa 7y ago
Why was Epstein not under suicide protection, even though he attempted suicide already, and his testimony was so important to finally outing the orange cheeto? Was the camera outage really coincidental?
astro_robot 7y ago
Prison reform issues always make me feel so contrasted. On one hand, a lot of the people held there did awful things. The article mentions El Chapo, mobsters, drug dealers, etc. as some of the people held there. It's extremely hard to feel any sort of sympathy for those people. They've done extreme amounts of damage to communities and have done far worse to other people. But on the other hand, no one should be sexually assaulted and beaten to death.
- jcoffland 7y ago
  In a just system, guilt has to be proven before the accused are punished.
- fuckhnmods 7y ago
  > It's extremely hard to feel any sort of sympathy for those people It's very easy for me. Compassion is for all people, not just those you perceive to be nice. I think the inability or extreme difficulty to have compassion towards fellow humans, as you've described here, is a major problem in America today. We must all work towards a better future by understanding why bad people were bad in the past. This would enable us to build a better future where fewer bad things happen. But you're not going to understand why Epstein was the way he was if you hate him so much you're not going to feel any compassion to someone presumably as tortured as him. By making him into a monster that everyone wanted to die in the first place, then we'll constantly be faced with Epsteins in the future. > But on the other hand, no one should be sexually assaulted and beaten to death. Obviously.
- gshdg 7y ago
  These are also people who have been accused of doing awful things, not convicted. It’s not a huge stretch to suggest that some of them are innocent.
- majos 7y ago
  I would argue that you can 1. assume all prisoners are guilty and 2. not care about their welfare (both assumptions that I disagree with) and still support prison reform on the grounds that it reduces criminality in society overall. Look at the current state of American prisons. We crowd prisoners together and make them feel angry, scared, weak, and ignored by the law (except when it hammers them down) for years on end. That makes it much harder for them to integrate back into normal, law-abiding society. We should be trying to make it as easy as possible for a convict to eventually leave criminal life behind. But our current system does the opposite.
wedn3sday 7y ago
In the US we really need to figure out what our prisons are for. Are they for punishment or rehabilitation? Do we just want to impose pain on people that have done bad things, or are we trying to change them into people that wont do those bad things anymore? Punishment might feel good to some people on a visceral level, but what good does it do?
- craftyguy 7y ago
  In the US we know our prisons are used for punishment, so there's really no point in asking that question. A better question might be: should be transform them from punishment to rehab? (I think 'yes', but there are many here in the US who disagree because 'fuck them, they're criminals and they deserve it')
- lisper 7y ago
  > Are they for punishment or rehabilitation? Neither. They are for sequestration. They are a place to put people that society just doesn't want to deal with. Punishment is just a side-effect. This is the reason we put people awaiting trial in the same facilities as people who have been convicted of crimes. Rehabilitation is not even on the radar.
- gumby 7y ago
  This is a jail, not a prison, and has a clear purpose (holding people for trials and such). Not defending the medieval “justice” system in the us, just being clear.
  - patientplatypus 7y ago
    Jails are worse. Often you have lots of people in the same jail not broken out by offense as its a holding pen for the locality. Which means you have minor drug offenses in the same facility with armed burglars and rapists. Additionally, a lot of times it makes sense for someone awaiting trial to push the date back as far as possible, in the hopes that witnesses or the prosecution decide not to show at trial or forget the offense. Maybe you can then get off with time served and without a conviction. Which means jails are "how long can you survive in the worst possible place so your life is not ruined more than it already is". Because America is a fucking shitshow and we just don't give two tugs of a dead dogs dick about basic human rights. I really hate this country.
ncmncm 7y ago
A place like this does not happen by accident. It is this way because the people responsible to operate it deliberately choose to keep it this way. It is infested with rats because they want it infested with rats. Prisoners are denied medical treatment because they want prisoners to be denied medical treatment. The individuals responsible for torturing 800 people at a time are clearly much worse than anybody held there. They have names, and homes, and could be arrested in them by New York police on New York warrants, if New York law enforcement could be persuaded to enforce New York law. The Federal government also has laws covering the behavior of the individuals torturing inmates there. Federal prosecutors have a responsibility to prosecute them. Yet, they are not.
qbaqbaqba 7y ago
It's disrespectful to victims of Gulags.

61 points by miobrien 7y ago

booleandilemma 7y ago

I’m guessing this is on HN because it’s where Epstein was being held.

aswanson 7y ago
Who is that?
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein Well known, well connected guy, busted for sex trafficking children.
  - aswanson 7y ago
    Ugh. Sorry i asked.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- nofjustice 7y ago
  He raped children and was friends with many high profile people, including Donald Trump who is presently directly accused of raping children that Epstein trafficked for him. Epstein was murdered / illegally allowed to commit suicide this morning inside the building linked above, so many of the people implicated in the child rape ring that he led may go free. It's a major news story in the world today. Citations: https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-epstein-unsealed-documents-name-powerful-men-in-sex-ring https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-epstein-unsealed-docum... edit lol hn REALLY doesn't want this comment visible. I will not stop okay? Someone asked a question and they will get an answer. Ya'll can keep deleting my post and I'll keep posting it. I posted this like 10 times and every time within like 5 seconds it is deleted. FUCK YOU SHITS for this. Who fucking does this? Why are you protecting the president from the direct facts that this man led children to him for raping? This has been flagged and I've been banned and everything. Fuck ya'll so much for your constant removal of useful information. You censor the SHIT out of this site Who the fuck thinks any of this matters if you honestly can't explain the context that this man raped children and provided them to the President?! Why the fuck does anything matter any more? Fuck all yall who want to hide the president's child-raping lifestyle from people who ARE ASKING ABOUT IT. Fuck yall sick motherfuckers.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- fuckhnmods 7y ago
  He was a child rapist and trafficker who 'supplied' children to Donald Trump and others who raped them as well. It's a major news story today.
craftyguy 7y ago
Yep, and "hacker" "news" has decided that filling the front page with articles about an (alleged, not convicted) sex trafficker is more important today than discussing any actual technology.
- cripblip 7y ago
  This is an overly negative comment, I work in the tech field and visit HN for tech content, but value and learn from the posting and discussion of other topics. Please ignore these posts if they are not of interest.

Sojuwa 7y ago

Why was Epstein not under suicide protection, even though he attempted suicide already, and his testimony was so important to finally outing the orange cheeto? Was the camera outage really coincidental?

astro_robot 7y ago

Prison reform issues always make me feel so contrasted. On one hand, a lot of the people held there did awful things. The article mentions El Chapo, mobsters, drug dealers, etc. as some of the people held there. It's extremely hard to feel any sort of sympathy for those people. They've done extreme amounts of damage to communities and have done far worse to other people. But on the other hand, no one should be sexually assaulted and beaten to death.

jcoffland 7y ago
In a just system, guilt has to be proven before the accused are punished.
fuckhnmods 7y ago
> It's extremely hard to feel any sort of sympathy for those people It's very easy for me. Compassion is for all people, not just those you perceive to be nice. I think the inability or extreme difficulty to have compassion towards fellow humans, as you've described here, is a major problem in America today. We must all work towards a better future by understanding why bad people were bad in the past. This would enable us to build a better future where fewer bad things happen. But you're not going to understand why Epstein was the way he was if you hate him so much you're not going to feel any compassion to someone presumably as tortured as him. By making him into a monster that everyone wanted to die in the first place, then we'll constantly be faced with Epsteins in the future. > But on the other hand, no one should be sexually assaulted and beaten to death. Obviously.
gshdg 7y ago
These are also people who have been accused of doing awful things, not convicted. It’s not a huge stretch to suggest that some of them are innocent.
majos 7y ago
I would argue that you can 1. assume all prisoners are guilty and 2. not care about their welfare (both assumptions that I disagree with) and still support prison reform on the grounds that it reduces criminality in society overall. Look at the current state of American prisons. We crowd prisoners together and make them feel angry, scared, weak, and ignored by the law (except when it hammers them down) for years on end. That makes it much harder for them to integrate back into normal, law-abiding society. We should be trying to make it as easy as possible for a convict to eventually leave criminal life behind. But our current system does the opposite.

wedn3sday 7y ago

In the US we really need to figure out what our prisons are for. Are they for punishment or rehabilitation? Do we just want to impose pain on people that have done bad things, or are we trying to change them into people that wont do those bad things anymore? Punishment might feel good to some people on a visceral level, but what good does it do?

craftyguy 7y ago
In the US we know our prisons are used for punishment, so there's really no point in asking that question. A better question might be: should be transform them from punishment to rehab? (I think 'yes', but there are many here in the US who disagree because 'fuck them, they're criminals and they deserve it')
lisper 7y ago
> Are they for punishment or rehabilitation? Neither. They are for sequestration. They are a place to put people that society just doesn't want to deal with. Punishment is just a side-effect. This is the reason we put people awaiting trial in the same facilities as people who have been convicted of crimes. Rehabilitation is not even on the radar.
gumby 7y ago
This is a jail, not a prison, and has a clear purpose (holding people for trials and such). Not defending the medieval “justice” system in the us, just being clear.
- patientplatypus 7y ago
  Jails are worse. Often you have lots of people in the same jail not broken out by offense as its a holding pen for the locality. Which means you have minor drug offenses in the same facility with armed burglars and rapists. Additionally, a lot of times it makes sense for someone awaiting trial to push the date back as far as possible, in the hopes that witnesses or the prosecution decide not to show at trial or forget the offense. Maybe you can then get off with time served and without a conviction. Which means jails are "how long can you survive in the worst possible place so your life is not ruined more than it already is". Because America is a fucking shitshow and we just don't give two tugs of a dead dogs dick about basic human rights. I really hate this country.

ncmncm 7y ago

A place like this does not happen by accident. It is this way because the people responsible to operate it deliberately choose to keep it this way. It is infested with rats because they want it infested with rats. Prisoners are denied medical treatment because they want prisoners to be denied medical treatment. The individuals responsible for torturing 800 people at a time are clearly much worse than anybody held there. They have names, and homes, and could be arrested in them by New York police on New York warrants, if New York law enforcement could be persuaded to enforce New York law. The Federal government also has laws covering the behavior of the individuals torturing inmates there. Federal prosecutors have a responsibility to prosecute them. Yet, they are not.

qbaqbaqba 7y ago

It's disrespectful to victims of Gulags.