4 ms·

They’re also stressing repeatability of 0-60 acceleration where Tesla reports 0-60 on nearly full batteries. The Model3 performance consistency is better than

They’re also stressing repeatability of 0-60 acceleration where Tesla reports 0-60 on nearly full batteries. The Model3 performance consistency is better than the model s because they improved the cooling system but performance drops off quickly after a couple of runs. I expect the Porsche to deliver consistent performance because that’s what they’ve been talking about for the last 3 years. Specifically, the referred to “ludicrous mode” as a party trick.

gsnedders 7y ago
Also Porsche are fairly well known for being very conservative with their published 0-60/62 numbers.
- MrFoof 7y ago
  The reason for this is Porsche's 0-60/0-62 times are intended to be reproduced in less than ideal conditions, and with great repeat-ability For example, 105F/40C air temps on a concrete surface (low-friction) with some amount of sand. Or 15F/-10C on a concrete surface. And you can do that back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back... for an hour (with say 50 standing starts), non-stop. You'll see little variation in the result, and the car won't throw up its hands and say the party's over until it takes a rest. That's a a big difference from the Model S which doesn't allow launch control unless the batteries are in a specific temperature window (which is about 20C wide), in which it must prep (warm up or cool down) before it's ready go, or to go again. A prep that is usually measured in minutes, unless you happened to already be in that window. The Model 3s thermal management and cooling system is a huge step up from the Model S and Y, but Porsche (especially as you step further up a model line into the high end stuff) is probably THE brand known to go out on a track and stay out there longer than nearly any other brand before it needs to come in and cool down a bit. They're rather notorious for still under engineering and overbuilding their powertrains and braking systems, and a lot of tech trickling down from their motorsport efforts.
  - schwap 7y ago
    > And you can do that back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back... for an hour (with say 50 standing starts), non-stop. You'll see little variation in the result, and the car won't throw up its hands and say the party's over until it takes a rest. Funny you say that, Road & Track did exactly that in 2014 with a Porsche 911 Turbo[1] and they were able to do 61 back-to-back launches. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5DRCTW-Q7o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5DRCTW-Q7o
  - rasz 7y ago
    >Porsche (especially as you step further up a model line into the high end stuff) is probably THE brand known to go out on a track and stay out there longer not without the mods https://www.sharkwerks.com/tech-articles/the-gt1-coolant-pipe-prevention-fix-on-gt1-block-gt3-gt2-turbo-cars https://www.sharkwerks.com/tech-articles/the-gt1-coolant-pip... note those are all performance models intended for racing/track day use, shipped with factory deficiency. Race tracks actually have a special rule for Porsche and will turn you back/fine you heavily if you bring unmodified car and break down. There was even NHTSA investigation, but Porsche weaseled out claiming this defect doesnt manifest during "normal" aka road use and even if it did coolant lines are behind rear wheels so catastrophic failure wont influence stopping ability .... https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2007/PORSCHE/911/2%252520DR/RWD%25252FAWD#investigations https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2007/PORSCHE/911/2%252520DR/RW... "31 Affected Products" Funnily enough Panameras and Cayennes have same glued lines, directly above front wheels, and Porsche will happily fix this for you at $2000 a pop, again optionally because car not intended for track use.
eastendguy 7y ago
Yeah, but I usually don't want to accelerate 10 times, but only once in a while (e. g. after a red light). It is totally useless, but great fun in Tesla.
- zarkov99 7y ago
  Yes, true, but it does cheapen the experience when you learn don't really have a high performance car after the first couple of laps.
  - cptskippy 7y ago
    I think his point is that the vast majority of these cars never see a track. They're commuter vehicles that will use Ludacris Mode or Launch Control as a party trick once in a while. To these people claiming repeatability is an excuse like saying you need to stretch or weren't ready.
- ehnto 7y ago
  A Porsche like this is going to be built with motorsport in mind. So you expect to buy your Porsche and be able to srive around on the streets but also take it to a local track day. In that context, it needs to perform consistently lap after lap else you can't compare and improve your driving and the whole experience is just a bit deflated.
kreetx 7y ago
How far do the Teslas fall in terms of seconds when you accelerate over and over again? Otherwise very cool that Porsche has achieved this!
- pmorici 7y ago
  This article [0] talks about the acceleration performance of the latest Model S P100D variant at different states of battery charge. Bottom line is that unless the battery is under 10% it is faster than the Taycan. All the stories about the S "overheating" seem to be talking about the older model or this article [1] about how a heavily modified S over heated at a race track. Porsche has to emphasize reputability because it's all they got. I mean they designed an electric sports car that is getting beat by Tesla's family sedan. There is also the issue of how long the car can maintain it's top speed w/o overheating but I'm not sure Porsche is making any claims about that here and that's an issue with any car gas or electric. [0] https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/videos/a32831/heres-exactly-how-much-a-tesla-slows-down-as-its-battery-gets-depleted/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/videos/... [1] https://en.cartests.net/2018/07/05/racing-tesla-p100dl-is-great-but-batteries-overheat-too-soon/ https://en.cartests.net/2018/07/05/racing-tesla-p100dl-is-gr...
- holycrapwhodat 7y ago
  I don't think it's cool. Look at it this way. A full battery with the highest possible voltage can deliver its highest possible amperage. Once the state of charge has dropped just a bit, and therefore pack voltage drops just a bit, the theoretical amperage that pack can deliver drops. A P100D does it's crazy 2.4s run on a 100% SoC battery. Let the battery cool and try it again, and you'll get your 2.5s run. Let the battery cool and try it again, and you'll get your 2.6s run. Etc. etc. IN OTHER WORDS... the Tesla motors and traction control are able to take advantage of everything the battery pack can possibly deliver. So as the pack voltage degrades, so does performance. Since the Taycan can deliver max performance runs on a 90% SoC battery the same it can on a 100% SoC battery... that means that the motors and traction control can not take full advantage of everything the battery pack can deliver. OR, it means Porsche literally is limiting the acceleration performance of the car in software. Either way, Tesla wins.

gsnedders 7y ago

Also Porsche are fairly well known for being very conservative with their published 0-60/62 numbers.

MrFoof 7y ago
The reason for this is Porsche's 0-60/0-62 times are intended to be reproduced in less than ideal conditions, and with great repeat-ability For example, 105F/40C air temps on a concrete surface (low-friction) with some amount of sand. Or 15F/-10C on a concrete surface. And you can do that back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back... for an hour (with say 50 standing starts), non-stop. You'll see little variation in the result, and the car won't throw up its hands and say the party's over until it takes a rest. That's a a big difference from the Model S which doesn't allow launch control unless the batteries are in a specific temperature window (which is about 20C wide), in which it must prep (warm up or cool down) before it's ready go, or to go again. A prep that is usually measured in minutes, unless you happened to already be in that window. The Model 3s thermal management and cooling system is a huge step up from the Model S and Y, but Porsche (especially as you step further up a model line into the high end stuff) is probably THE brand known to go out on a track and stay out there longer than nearly any other brand before it needs to come in and cool down a bit. They're rather notorious for still under engineering and overbuilding their powertrains and braking systems, and a lot of tech trickling down from their motorsport efforts.
- schwap 7y ago
  > And you can do that back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back... for an hour (with say 50 standing starts), non-stop. You'll see little variation in the result, and the car won't throw up its hands and say the party's over until it takes a rest. Funny you say that, Road & Track did exactly that in 2014 with a Porsche 911 Turbo[1] and they were able to do 61 back-to-back launches. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5DRCTW-Q7o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5DRCTW-Q7o
- rasz 7y ago
  >Porsche (especially as you step further up a model line into the high end stuff) is probably THE brand known to go out on a track and stay out there longer not without the mods https://www.sharkwerks.com/tech-articles/the-gt1-coolant-pipe-prevention-fix-on-gt1-block-gt3-gt2-turbo-cars https://www.sharkwerks.com/tech-articles/the-gt1-coolant-pip... note those are all performance models intended for racing/track day use, shipped with factory deficiency. Race tracks actually have a special rule for Porsche and will turn you back/fine you heavily if you bring unmodified car and break down. There was even NHTSA investigation, but Porsche weaseled out claiming this defect doesnt manifest during "normal" aka road use and even if it did coolant lines are behind rear wheels so catastrophic failure wont influence stopping ability .... https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2007/PORSCHE/911/2%252520DR/RWD%25252FAWD#investigations https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2007/PORSCHE/911/2%252520DR/RW... "31 Affected Products" Funnily enough Panameras and Cayennes have same glued lines, directly above front wheels, and Porsche will happily fix this for you at $2000 a pop, again optionally because car not intended for track use.

eastendguy 7y ago

Yeah, but I usually don't want to accelerate 10 times, but only once in a while (e. g. after a red light). It is totally useless, but great fun in Tesla.

zarkov99 7y ago
Yes, true, but it does cheapen the experience when you learn don't really have a high performance car after the first couple of laps.
- cptskippy 7y ago
  I think his point is that the vast majority of these cars never see a track. They're commuter vehicles that will use Ludacris Mode or Launch Control as a party trick once in a while. To these people claiming repeatability is an excuse like saying you need to stretch or weren't ready.
ehnto 7y ago
A Porsche like this is going to be built with motorsport in mind. So you expect to buy your Porsche and be able to srive around on the streets but also take it to a local track day. In that context, it needs to perform consistently lap after lap else you can't compare and improve your driving and the whole experience is just a bit deflated.

kreetx 7y ago

How far do the Teslas fall in terms of seconds when you accelerate over and over again? Otherwise very cool that Porsche has achieved this!

pmorici 7y ago
This article [0] talks about the acceleration performance of the latest Model S P100D variant at different states of battery charge. Bottom line is that unless the battery is under 10% it is faster than the Taycan. All the stories about the S "overheating" seem to be talking about the older model or this article [1] about how a heavily modified S over heated at a race track. Porsche has to emphasize reputability because it's all they got. I mean they designed an electric sports car that is getting beat by Tesla's family sedan. There is also the issue of how long the car can maintain it's top speed w/o overheating but I'm not sure Porsche is making any claims about that here and that's an issue with any car gas or electric. [0] https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/videos/a32831/heres-exactly-how-much-a-tesla-slows-down-as-its-battery-gets-depleted/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/videos/... [1] https://en.cartests.net/2018/07/05/racing-tesla-p100dl-is-great-but-batteries-overheat-too-soon/ https://en.cartests.net/2018/07/05/racing-tesla-p100dl-is-gr...
holycrapwhodat 7y ago
I don't think it's cool. Look at it this way. A full battery with the highest possible voltage can deliver its highest possible amperage. Once the state of charge has dropped just a bit, and therefore pack voltage drops just a bit, the theoretical amperage that pack can deliver drops. A P100D does it's crazy 2.4s run on a 100% SoC battery. Let the battery cool and try it again, and you'll get your 2.5s run. Let the battery cool and try it again, and you'll get your 2.6s run. Etc. etc. IN OTHER WORDS... the Tesla motors and traction control are able to take advantage of everything the battery pack can possibly deliver. So as the pack voltage degrades, so does performance. Since the Taycan can deliver max performance runs on a 90% SoC battery the same it can on a 100% SoC battery... that means that the motors and traction control can not take full advantage of everything the battery pack can deliver. OR, it means Porsche literally is limiting the acceleration performance of the car in software. Either way, Tesla wins.