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How does a guy on suicide watch kill himself? This is a massive failure of Justice.

by anonu 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cmurf 7y ago
Right. It is proof of corruption and incompetency. He was in the custody of the government. This damages trust in the system, but also the ideology of it, as people already express that this outcome is good. Those people don't care about evidence, witnesses, arguments, and now he can't directly name co-conspirators and accomplices. Someone has bought their idea of justice with death.
fencepost 7y ago
'suicide watch' generally means that someone checks your cell more frequently looking for signs that you're working on a way to kill yourself, not that you're constantly monitored. That's expensive.
ghufran_syed 7y ago
Some relevant into: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_watch https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_watch I was surprised to learn that it's often periodic, not continuous. There is probably one guard on duty at most for a given cell, and when they go use the rest-room, there may be no-one watching
DanBC 7y ago
"Suicide watch" covers a range of activity. Someone may be getting a visual check once an hour, once every 30 minutes, or once every 15 minutes. That may be as simple as looking through a hatch / peephole to see if the person isn't obviously ligatured, or it may include calling to the person and hearing a response. There's not much evidence that 15 minute observations work, and some evidence they cause harm. If someone's risk is high enough for them to be on observations they probably need to be on continuous observations. Continuous observations are tricky. Imagine another person being with you 24 hours of the day, watching you while you eat, bathe, defecate. We want to avoid them if possible because it doesn't build the patient's / prisoner's safety. It keeps them safe for those few days, but it may significantly increase their risk afterwards. And this is if the observations actually happen. Sometimes staff lie. https://twitter.com/KirstenSjovoll/status/1067382479336742912?s=20 https://twitter.com/KirstenSjovoll/status/106738247933674291... 15 minute obs disturb sleep and don't work: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-bulletin/article/against-the-stream-intermittent-nurse-observations-of-inpatients-at-night-serve-no-purpose-and-cause-sleep-deprivation/BF2CD76D8F8970581ED48C7594E9A3C4#.XGPGNer5dXM.twitter https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-bulletin/art...
- tfha 7y ago
  Wasn't he on 24/7 camera surveillance?
2_listerine_pls 7y ago
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/rule-of-law/when-will-epstein-be-found-dead-before-or-after-a-deal/ https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/rule-o...

How does a guy on suicide watch kill himself? This is a massive failure of Justice.

by anonu 7y ago

How does a guy on suicide watch kill himself? This is a massive failure of Justice.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

cmurf 7y ago

Right. It is proof of corruption and incompetency. He was in the custody of the government. This damages trust in the system, but also the ideology of it, as people already express that this outcome is good. Those people don't care about evidence, witnesses, arguments, and now he can't directly name co-conspirators and accomplices. Someone has bought their idea of justice with death.

fencepost 7y ago

'suicide watch' generally means that someone checks your cell more frequently looking for signs that you're working on a way to kill yourself, not that you're constantly monitored. That's expensive.

ghufran_syed 7y ago

Some relevant into: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_watch https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_watch I was surprised to learn that it's often periodic, not continuous. There is probably one guard on duty at most for a given cell, and when they go use the rest-room, there may be no-one watching

DanBC 7y ago

"Suicide watch" covers a range of activity. Someone may be getting a visual check once an hour, once every 30 minutes, or once every 15 minutes. That may be as simple as looking through a hatch / peephole to see if the person isn't obviously ligatured, or it may include calling to the person and hearing a response. There's not much evidence that 15 minute observations work, and some evidence they cause harm. If someone's risk is high enough for them to be on observations they probably need to be on continuous observations. Continuous observations are tricky. Imagine another person being with you 24 hours of the day, watching you while you eat, bathe, defecate. We want to avoid them if possible because it doesn't build the patient's / prisoner's safety. It keeps them safe for those few days, but it may significantly increase their risk afterwards. And this is if the observations actually happen. Sometimes staff lie. https://twitter.com/KirstenSjovoll/status/1067382479336742912?s=20 https://twitter.com/KirstenSjovoll/status/106738247933674291... 15 minute obs disturb sleep and don't work: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-bulletin/article/against-the-stream-intermittent-nurse-observations-of-inpatients-at-night-serve-no-purpose-and-cause-sleep-deprivation/BF2CD76D8F8970581ED48C7594E9A3C4#.XGPGNer5dXM.twitter https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-bulletin/art...

tfha 7y ago
Wasn't he on 24/7 camera surveillance?

2_listerine_pls 7y ago

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/rule-of-law/when-will-epstein-be-found-dead-before-or-after-a-deal/ https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/rule-o...