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Porsche Taycan [video]
- tyfon 7y agoI think this is the first car that is nearing the 2013 tesla model s. I'm also curious about the rapid charge, it was supposed to be 350 afaik but is launching with 150ish only (not 250 as in the web page) and will be increased with software updates in the next few years. I think if they put a proper infotainment system with a big screen like tesla, give free map/system updates and it doesn't suck in efficiency it might actually sell a bit more than etron and i-pace. However looking at it... it reminds me of a frog, so maybe not..
- clouddrover 7y ago> I think this is the first car that is nearing the 2013 tesla model s. They're aimed at different things. The Taycan is a performance car, the Model S isn't. The Model S is uncompetitive with the Taycan around a race track, for example.
- bamboozled 7y agoAlso why the big screen probably isn’t a priority while hooning around a track!
- outericky 7y agoI never really understood this comparison. 99% of owners will never see the track. So why do we care so much about track performance?
- herova 7y agoNot in Germany, which is most valuable market for Porsche.
- lazyjones 7y ago> it might actually sell a bit more than etron and i-pace. That's not really hard... Both these models aren't really selling well.
- tyfon 7y agoThey're selling better than the model x in Norway so far in 2019. For me personally they have too short range and too little space but there is a certain segment that want a "real" electric car made by an encumbered manufacturer. I used to be one of them until I saw the specs of the i-pace and etron.
- navigatesol 7y agoCan you show your data? I think both those models are out selling S/X.
- brohee 7y agoThe i-Pace sales are limited by the Austrian factory capacity to make them AFAIK
- lm28469 7y agoLet's wait for the price, real world performances and see how the fit and finish is. As good as the 2013 model S was it was far from perfect and suffered from many issues.
- tyfon 7y agoYeah there was enough issues with it for me to go for a toyota instead at the time, especially with rattling in the windows. I'm also really curious as to it's consumption at 100-120 km/h (60-75 mph). That and the internal space was what struck down the etron and i-pace for me.
- zippergz 7y agoI know I’m the weirdo, but the big screen is something I dislike about the Model S. I’m glad to be getting options that don’t have it.
- kentm 7y agoNot sure about the S, but the 3’d big screen looks really goofy to me and was a definite factor in my decision to wait for more electric car competition.
- kwhitefoot 7y agoThe big screen on the S and X gets rid of all the clutter in the centre console. Just look at the centre console on the I-Pace, e-Tron, and EQC 400, just a mess of screens and buttons making the interior look and actually be more cramped. I like the assembly quality on the Magna Steyr built Jaguar but the design is too fussy for me. I prefer my S.
- pmcollins 7y agoIt has a two-speed transmission, which should help with high-speed performance. https://insideevs.com/news/343827/porsche-taycan-2-speed-rear-transaxle-performance-modeled/ https://insideevs.com/news/343827/porsche-taycan-2-speed-rea... But one of the advantages of an electric car for me is the possibility of no (variable) transmission. I don't want clutches that are constantly wearing down as I drive. For me this is not about money or maintenance headaches, but about elegance.
- fnord77 7y agoyou only need clutches when you're stopped - to engage an moving/idling motor to stationary drive wheels. Electric cars don't need clutches because their motors stop too
- aaronax 7y agoProbably the car will switch between gears while in motion. It seems to me that it would be difficult to do that smoothly without a clutch.
- _ph_ 7y agoIt is only important to carefully match the revs when switchen gears. Electric cars with electronic control can be easily programmed to do so.
- davidgould 7y agoPut an encoder on both shafts, have a control loop match the speeds, adjusting as frequently as desired, easy.
- djaychela 7y agoGiven that a standard ICE vehicle clutch will usually make over 150k miles before needing replacement, I can't see any reason to think that this will be 'inelegant' - it would appear to boost performance nearly everywhere, and they will not be 'constantly wearing down as [you] drive' - they'll be electronically controlled as part of the transmission and optimally maintained as a result. While I agree the simplicity of a single speed no-clutch electric drivetrain is appealing, I don't think that should preclude using different systems if this means optimum performance overall.
- vvanders 7y agoGlad to see competition finally coming around. That said I still wonder if they're holding back here to not cannibalize other lines. The 0-60 in the 3.5s range is over a full second off Tesla's best and for a performance brand seems like you want to be more in line with Tesla.
- clouddrover 7y agoIf you try to drive a Tesla Model S like a performance car it just overheats: https://www.thedrive.com/news/5207/this-video-reminds-us-that-the-tesla-model-s-is-an-awful-track-car https://www.thedrive.com/news/5207/this-video-reminds-us-tha... https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-a-tesla-model-s-can-do-around-the-nurburgrin-1600644908 https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-a-tesla-model-s-can-do-aroun... Here's a Model S losing to a Nissan Leaf over 14 laps: https://insideevs.com/news/359903/video-nissan-leaf-beats-tesla-model-s/ https://insideevs.com/news/359903/video-nissan-leaf-beats-te... Porsche doesn't want to be in line with that.
- mikeash 7y agoThe performance version of the Model 3 does 0-60 in 3.2 seconds and by all reports it’s an excellent track car.
- clouddrover 7y agoThe Taycan has done sub-8 minutes at the Nürburgring Nordscheleife according to Mark Webber (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohHEdaRhF1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohHEdaRhF1k). What's the Model 3's best time?
- Grazester 7y agoSub 8 minutes? I wonder where they started and ended their stopwatch also what kind of tires used. Edited://
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- ratsbane 7y agoIt all looks very nice, but is it just a copy of the Model 3 with a few upgraded bits (air suspension) and twice the price? Also, the interior seemed very dark - maybe just the pre-production version hiding some details or I'm just used to the glass Model 3 roof. Nice to see more manufacturers getting serious about this obvious electric-car future.
- GhostVII 7y agoI mean it's a copy of the Model 3 in the same sense that a Porsche 911 is a copy of a BMW 3 series.
- ratsbane 7y agoDisputing your statement... The 911 was first produced in 1963 with an air-cooled flat 6 engine mounted aft of the rear axle. The 3 series, first produced in 1975, is a front-engine car with a water-cooled straight-4 and -6 (most commonly) water-cooled engine mounted in front. So the first 911 was made twelve years before the first 3 series, is structured completely differently and has completely different engine technology. The Model 3 was released 2-3 years before the Taycan is expected out, and has essentially the same layout: floor battery with front and rear electric motors mounted in about the same spots. They both have four doors with the same deep swoop down of the roof over the rear seats, flattened hoods that dip below the line of the fenders, etc. The Taycan looks more like a Model 3 than any other electric car around, and since the Model 3 came first, it's reasonable to describe the Taycan in Model 3 terms. It's a good design, functionally and aesthetically, and I'm certainly not faulting Porsche for these design choices. I've owned a 911 before and I've always appreciated Porsches - they have made many great cars, and the Taycan might well be another one. I hope that it is. But it does look a lot like a Model 3.
- GhostVII 7y agoI just don't really see any similarity between the model 3 and the Taycan other than them both being electric, they are completely different classes of cars. They have the same layout because that is the most obvious layout for a 4 door AWD electric car (i-pace has same layout too). The Taycan is a luxury sports car with good handling and the ability to run at full performance for a long time. The model 3 is a practical car with a fairly poor interior, poor handling, and great acceleration and range.
- wrycoder 7y agoI got as far as $130,000. Edit: £
- gambiting 7y agoWell, there are new models coming that start at £65k, which while still really expensive is at least in line with every other premium electric car out there(Mercedes EQC, Audi E-Tron, Jaguar i-Pace all start at around £65k)
- WhompingWindows 7y agoGiven the extremely limited numbers they'll be putting out, I'd be surprised if that price point was too high. Seems that Tesla has the 45-100k range well covered, but they don't have a sports car variant and that's why I think a limited volume 130k is decent idea for Porsche to get its feet wet.
- tomatocracy 7y agoPretty close to the 911 turbo, which makes sense. Porsche is notorious for expensive options too though.
- countryqt30 7y agoHuge fan of this -- will definitely replace my Tesla for this car!
- outericky 7y agoBy the time they are available, your Tesla will likely be due to replaced anyway. But here's to the future, fellow EV'er.
- kylec 7y agoDeliveries of the Taycan start this year
- outericky 7y agook. Deliveries of the model 3 started in 2017. But it took a while to reach critical mass. And some countries still haven't gotten them. EDIT: "Prices for this ‘Turbo’ launch model will be around £130,000 with cheaper/slower versions kicking off around £65,000 within 18 months of the car’s launch in late 2019. " So... maybe we'll see some in 2019, but really it's 2021 before more than a few thousand hit the market.
- hef19898 7y agoI would assume Porsche to be able to launch a car with an equivalent of production hell, so.
- xedeon 7y agoThe big question would be where will they source all of those batteries?
- felixbraun 7y ago"VW secures US$25B in battery supplies in electric-car surge" https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/vw-secures-25-billion-battery-supplies-in-electric-car-surge-1.1025335 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/vw-secures-25-billion-battery-su... "Volkswagen will invest almost 1 billion euros ($1.1 billion) in battery cell production at a facility in western Germany" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric/volkswagen-to-make-batteries-in-germany-slim-down-idUSKCN1SJ1PU https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric/volks...
- pencal 7y agojust by the looks of it, this already beats the ugly Tesla
- outericky 7y agoNot everyone likes the look of a Porsche either. But thanks for the opinion. Here's to taking more ICE cars off the road. A world of quiet, zero emissions cars on the road sounds good to me. The sooner everyone can get their hands on one, the better.
- brokenmachine 7y agoI was keen for the quiet car future as well, but now they're adding buzzers to them when traveling less than 30kph. Bleah.
- bitL 7y agoIs the original Tesla founder who was ousted by Elon somehow involved in this? I remember he went to VW afterwards...
- seltzered_ 7y agoYou're thinking of Martin Eberhard, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Eberhard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Eberhard: "In 2010, Martin Eberhard confirmed to Autoblog Green that he was doing work with Volkswagen, but no further details have been provided [...] Later, he worked at Lucid Motors, a startup funded by LeEco and others which was created to compete with Tesla, until 2015 [...] In 2017, Eberhard founded inEVit in a bid to supply major OEMs with electric drivetrains and power storage solutions. [...] In October, 2017, Eberhard joined Sokon Industry Group when that company acquired Inevit. This branch was renamed SF Motors."
- myrandomcomment 7y agoSo I want this with a drop top and 2 seats, so basically a Boxster. Let us see who gets there first with a proper roadster. Tesla or Porsche. I will be the first in line. Yes it is a stupid use of money, but the inter teenage boy does not care.
- joshu 7y agoi’m curious how he could feel torque vectoring in a straight line....
- ratsbane 7y agoA bit late to this thread, but here's a response by the owner of a Model 3 Performance edition to the Taycan video: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-performance-31-hard-launches-video https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-performance-31-hard-...