8 ms·

This is an interesting idea, but it needs some cachet to catch on. Don't get me wrong: India _needs_ this site, and needs it badly. Corruption and graft have be

by ajays 16y ago

This is an interesting idea, but it needs some cachet to catch on. Don't get me wrong: India _needs_ this site, and needs it badly. Corruption and graft have become so bad that everyone from the top-most office down to the lowest level refuses to even lift a finger without getting his palm greased. Things have become so bad that officials are willing to cause a loss of billions of dollars to the taxpayer just to make some money (ref. the "2G scam"). What India needs is a WikiLeaks. And a "wikileaks" for corruption, where you can list the name, position, etc. of the officials who are corrupt. It would be a pretty long list, I can imagine.

frisco 16y ago
>> Will you help us set up something like [WikiLeaks] in our town? >> There already is a WikiLeaks in your town: WikiLeaks. The corruption exposure business is [global], not regional. It's often forgotten that WikiLeaks isn't specifically aimed at the US, and the vast majority of their leaks until recently were from other parts of the world.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  It's true, but with their 'maximum exposure' policy, and the fact that they've said they've still got the banks, other private industry, and the EU all lined up, I think it'll be a while before we see more stuff from WikiLeaks about non-Western countries. Then again, maybe not.
- ajays 16y ago
  I understand that WikiLeaks is global. I also know that they have exposed leaks from Kenya, India, etc. But I think there is still room for a local "wikileaks" which is tailored to the local environment in India (which is a big enough country that it would make sense). Even though India has its version of the FOIA, asking too many questions can get you killed: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/27/india-rti-activists-deaths http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/27/india-rti-activi...
der_ketzer 16y ago
I live in Mexiko. The corruption here is enourmous, from top to bottom. Wikileaks has showed this corruption. The problem IMHO with corruption is that nobody can/want to do something about it. It doesn't matter (at least here) if you collect all the proofs necessary, because the people that can do something about it are corrupt as well. And I don't think it's that easy to denounce bribes and send to jail the guilty ones. There was a case against ABB (http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2010/2010-175.htm http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2010/2010-175.htm), ABB was charged of paying bribes to Mexican government. There are two ways to make bussiness here, pay a bribe or to leave. ¿Who is more guilty, who pays the bribe (and get no income at all) or the one who receives it? I don't think companies have any moral. So the option is to follow a corruption scheme. And I'm not saying I agree with that or that I'm happy with it. I'm only saying that it doesn't serve a purpose to denounce bribes, if there's no one to punish them.
- keerthi 16y ago
  I believe if there is a public uprising against the government and the authorities, they will be forced to answer these issues. Wikileaks faclites this by publishing the documents through all types of medium which cannot be censored by the government. As a citizen you can also contribute by spreading it more and more.. My best bet would be to spread it in schools and colleges as they seem to be fearless lot. An uprising is what we need.
  - radu_floricica 16y ago
    I'm Romanian. We're not as bad as Mexic, in the sense we don't have drug lords and piles of bodies, but we definitely don't lose in corruption. I've spent not a little time thinking about what can be done. I know the problem (pretty much everybody knows the problem) - politicians suck. They're either corrupt and incompetent, or just corrupt. Problem is, we really really don't have any alternatives. There is absolutely no party, not even a small youth one that's not the same. We can barely trust non-political watchdog organizations - hell, after the last elections we don't really trust them either. The media is... ok. Private for the most part, and so heavily politicized (yes, it makes sense here), but they don't pull punches when it comes to criticizing the government. They're pretty open with both obvious mistakes and obvious cases of corruption - but the problem is, nothing ever comes out of it. In a working democracy this would be a case for the justice system. Well, we have two problems. First, the whole system is also corrupt as hell. Second, it's also (probably on purpose) extremely inefficient. All the reforms in the past years, including a ridiculously publicized new constitution a few years back only made things worse. So yes, I know what we need. We need: * to respect the now largely ignored law saying that public institutions, education and health are non-politic; * justice system reform * new and fresh options for the next elections * untainted public organizations It's no mystery, really. The only problem is... how do we do it? It it my personal conviction that solving this chicken and egg problem is the next greatest challenge. A generic solution would be extremely useful for most developing countries, i.e. half the world right now.
keerthi 16y ago
bet we would need a separate site for publishing the list. The elections are near. Hope they get a good reply
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
IPaidABribe 16y ago
Ajays, we beg to differ. IPaidABribe believes that corruption in India is systemic and only procedural change can make a difference. Merely booking corrupt individuals is a band-aid solution to a deep-rooted problem as they can easily be replaced by another corrupt officer. Instead, if there is a transparent and accountable system of governance in place it would naturally reduce the degree of discretion which officials enjoy today in India. This, we believe, would help build a corruption-free India.

by ajays 16y ago

frisco 16y ago

>> Will you help us set up something like [WikiLeaks] in our town? >> There already is a WikiLeaks in your town: WikiLeaks. The corruption exposure business is [global], not regional. It's often forgotten that WikiLeaks isn't specifically aimed at the US, and the vast majority of their leaks until recently were from other parts of the world.

steveklabnik 16y ago
It's true, but with their 'maximum exposure' policy, and the fact that they've said they've still got the banks, other private industry, and the EU all lined up, I think it'll be a while before we see more stuff from WikiLeaks about non-Western countries. Then again, maybe not.
ajays 16y ago
I understand that WikiLeaks is global. I also know that they have exposed leaks from Kenya, India, etc. But I think there is still room for a local "wikileaks" which is tailored to the local environment in India (which is a big enough country that it would make sense). Even though India has its version of the FOIA, asking too many questions can get you killed: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/27/india-rti-activists-deaths http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/27/india-rti-activi...

der_ketzer 16y ago

I live in Mexiko. The corruption here is enourmous, from top to bottom. Wikileaks has showed this corruption. The problem IMHO with corruption is that nobody can/want to do something about it. It doesn't matter (at least here) if you collect all the proofs necessary, because the people that can do something about it are corrupt as well. And I don't think it's that easy to denounce bribes and send to jail the guilty ones. There was a case against ABB (http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2010/2010-175.htm http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2010/2010-175.htm), ABB was charged of paying bribes to Mexican government. There are two ways to make bussiness here, pay a bribe or to leave. ¿Who is more guilty, who pays the bribe (and get no income at all) or the one who receives it? I don't think companies have any moral. So the option is to follow a corruption scheme. And I'm not saying I agree with that or that I'm happy with it. I'm only saying that it doesn't serve a purpose to denounce bribes, if there's no one to punish them.

keerthi 16y ago
I believe if there is a public uprising against the government and the authorities, they will be forced to answer these issues. Wikileaks faclites this by publishing the documents through all types of medium which cannot be censored by the government. As a citizen you can also contribute by spreading it more and more.. My best bet would be to spread it in schools and colleges as they seem to be fearless lot. An uprising is what we need.
- radu_floricica 16y ago
  I'm Romanian. We're not as bad as Mexic, in the sense we don't have drug lords and piles of bodies, but we definitely don't lose in corruption. I've spent not a little time thinking about what can be done. I know the problem (pretty much everybody knows the problem) - politicians suck. They're either corrupt and incompetent, or just corrupt. Problem is, we really really don't have any alternatives. There is absolutely no party, not even a small youth one that's not the same. We can barely trust non-political watchdog organizations - hell, after the last elections we don't really trust them either. The media is... ok. Private for the most part, and so heavily politicized (yes, it makes sense here), but they don't pull punches when it comes to criticizing the government. They're pretty open with both obvious mistakes and obvious cases of corruption - but the problem is, nothing ever comes out of it. In a working democracy this would be a case for the justice system. Well, we have two problems. First, the whole system is also corrupt as hell. Second, it's also (probably on purpose) extremely inefficient. All the reforms in the past years, including a ridiculously publicized new constitution a few years back only made things worse. So yes, I know what we need. We need: * to respect the now largely ignored law saying that public institutions, education and health are non-politic; * justice system reform * new and fresh options for the next elections * untainted public organizations It's no mystery, really. The only problem is... how do we do it? It it my personal conviction that solving this chicken and egg problem is the next greatest challenge. A generic solution would be extremely useful for most developing countries, i.e. half the world right now.

keerthi 16y ago

bet we would need a separate site for publishing the list. The elections are near. Hope they get a good reply

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

IPaidABribe 16y ago

Ajays, we beg to differ. IPaidABribe believes that corruption in India is systemic and only procedural change can make a difference. Merely booking corrupt individuals is a band-aid solution to a deep-rooted problem as they can easily be replaced by another corrupt officer. Instead, if there is a transparent and accountable system of governance in place it would naturally reduce the degree of discretion which officials enjoy today in India. This, we believe, would help build a corruption-free India.