7 ms·

Probably to understand motive, and check for potential involvement of others. And whilst they have a metric shit-ton of spying capabilities on US civilians, th

by mikejb 7y ago

Probably to understand motive, and check for potential involvement of others. And whilst they have a metric shit-ton of spying capabilities on US civilians, those are not really intended to avoid crime. (Maybe the shift of perception of what is terrorism might change that, though)

kennywinker 7y ago
He posted a manifesto online. Think his motive was pretty clearly outlined in it.
- stordoff 7y ago
  So far as I can tell, the Dayton shooter didn't leave a manifesto: > The Dayton shooter left no manifesto. https://www.vox.com/2019/8/7/20758473/trump-invasion-el-paso-shooting-sanders-warren-dayton https://www.vox.com/2019/8/7/20758473/trump-invasion-el-paso...
- ethanwillis 7y ago
  Did he? I thought that was the El Paso shooter.
- iamnotacrook 7y ago
  You're thinking of mass shooting 2019/247, not mass shooting 2019/248. (Yes, we're up to more than one a day on average now) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2019 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_th...
  - gmueckl 7y ago
    I have no words that let me express my opinion of politicians that are willing to let this go on in a way that doesn't blatantly violate the rules of this site.
  - janOsch 7y ago
    This list gives me shivers...is the USA a scary, uncivilized country?
    - FakeComments 7y ago
      Yes. The Democrat’s policy of de-policing for crimes committed by blacks has made some areas in the USA significantly less safe. The vast majority of those shootings are incidents between or involving gang members, predominantly black. Notice how often Chicago, IL makes that list? Chicago alone is twenty incidents — which isn’t surprising, considering its reputation for gang crime. But a single city accounting for nearly 10% of mass shootings is a culture problem in that city — not a general problem with firearms or nationwide violence.
    - rayiner 7y ago
      Yes, and it always has been. The murder rate per capita in the US has consistently been 5-10x higher than in Europe for the entire 20th century. Long before gun control, social safety nets, the drug war, or any other difference you might want to blame. The US is a low cohesion, high violence society.
      - djsumdog 7y ago
        As someone who grew up in the US, lived in the EU, Australia and NZ for a number of years, I can say on a day to day basis, it's still pretty much nothing. The average American rarely ever has to directly confront violence. I've even spent years in major metropolitan areas and the majority of people don't walk around each day anticipating violence. My sister got mugged once, in our small home city, like 20 years ago. I've never personally been mugged or assaulted, but I did have one break in while in NZ (they took all my electronics) and I had a bicycle stolen in Australia. I haven't lived in "bad parts of town" through (although friends told me I lived in a bad part of town in two places I lived in; but I really feel they were exaggerating) and in high crime areas I'm sure it's different. But the portrayal the rest of the world sees of America is through a very limited lens. And German or Irish or Chinese person who comes to visit the US will see kids playing in parks, people in the cities walking to work or lunch, others browsing through stores or pumping petrol into their cars and it will generally looks pretty much like every other part of the mid/high income industrialized world.
  - frittig 7y ago
    I find lists like those very disingenuous. For example look at source 25 "During an attempted home invasion, shots were fired and four people were wounded". In other words, four criminals tried to rob a home but the resident of the house shot 4 of them and three of them are in the hospital and one has been released to jail. I wouldn't categories that incident along with the two recent "actual" mass shootings.
    - JohnStrangeII 7y ago
      So your challenging the definition of a mass shooting they use because it somehow doesn't cohere with your personal thoughts about it. But the problem of defining a mass shooting and that various definitions are controversial is mentioned in the very first paragraph of that page. I cannot find anything disingenous about choosing an official definition and mentioning that it is problematic in the first paragraph.
      - sokoloff 7y ago
        I would characterize the home invaders as the "perpetrators" in that particular story and exclude them from the injury count, consistent with the language of that definition. From the article: Gun Violence Archive, a nonprofit research group that tracks shootings and their characteristics in the United States, defines a mass shooting as an incident in which four or more people, excluding the perpetrators, are shot in one location at roughly the same time.
        JohnStrangeII 7y ago
        Yes, they use the official definition of the term "mass shooting", as it was adopted after 2013 by the US congress, which defines it as a shooting with 3 or more victims. Moreover, they mention in the very first paragraph that the definition is controversial and problematic, and they mention all alternative official definitions (e.g. before 2013) explicitly in the following paragraphs. You probably have another definition in mind, since in your mind "mass shooting" is somehow associated with classic amok runs and terrorism. But how is that a counter-argument to using the official definitions and terms, as they are defined by US congress and used by police and the US judicial system? Why on earth would it be disingenuous for them to base their statistics on the official definitions? Sure, some people think that e.g. gang-related gun violence shouldn't count as a mass shooting even if many victims are involved, but the US congress chose otherwise and the page makes it crystal clear that the definition is problematic.
  - entropea 7y ago
    >2019/247 >2019/248 Counting them like this is extremely depressing yet accurate.
- naasking 7y ago
  > He posted a manifesto online A manifesto isn't necessarily honest. It describes how shooters want the world to view their actions, not necessarily the actual motives behind their actions.

by mikejb 7y ago

kennywinker 7y ago

He posted a manifesto online. Think his motive was pretty clearly outlined in it.

stordoff 7y ago
So far as I can tell, the Dayton shooter didn't leave a manifesto: > The Dayton shooter left no manifesto. https://www.vox.com/2019/8/7/20758473/trump-invasion-el-paso-shooting-sanders-warren-dayton https://www.vox.com/2019/8/7/20758473/trump-invasion-el-paso...
ethanwillis 7y ago
Did he? I thought that was the El Paso shooter.
iamnotacrook 7y ago
You're thinking of mass shooting 2019/247, not mass shooting 2019/248. (Yes, we're up to more than one a day on average now) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2019 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_th...
- gmueckl 7y ago
  I have no words that let me express my opinion of politicians that are willing to let this go on in a way that doesn't blatantly violate the rules of this site.
- janOsch 7y ago
  This list gives me shivers...is the USA a scary, uncivilized country?
  - FakeComments 7y ago
    Yes. The Democrat’s policy of de-policing for crimes committed by blacks has made some areas in the USA significantly less safe. The vast majority of those shootings are incidents between or involving gang members, predominantly black. Notice how often Chicago, IL makes that list? Chicago alone is twenty incidents — which isn’t surprising, considering its reputation for gang crime. But a single city accounting for nearly 10% of mass shootings is a culture problem in that city — not a general problem with firearms or nationwide violence.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    Yes, and it always has been. The murder rate per capita in the US has consistently been 5-10x higher than in Europe for the entire 20th century. Long before gun control, social safety nets, the drug war, or any other difference you might want to blame. The US is a low cohesion, high violence society.
    - djsumdog 7y ago
      As someone who grew up in the US, lived in the EU, Australia and NZ for a number of years, I can say on a day to day basis, it's still pretty much nothing. The average American rarely ever has to directly confront violence. I've even spent years in major metropolitan areas and the majority of people don't walk around each day anticipating violence. My sister got mugged once, in our small home city, like 20 years ago. I've never personally been mugged or assaulted, but I did have one break in while in NZ (they took all my electronics) and I had a bicycle stolen in Australia. I haven't lived in "bad parts of town" through (although friends told me I lived in a bad part of town in two places I lived in; but I really feel they were exaggerating) and in high crime areas I'm sure it's different. But the portrayal the rest of the world sees of America is through a very limited lens. And German or Irish or Chinese person who comes to visit the US will see kids playing in parks, people in the cities walking to work or lunch, others browsing through stores or pumping petrol into their cars and it will generally looks pretty much like every other part of the mid/high income industrialized world.
- frittig 7y ago
  I find lists like those very disingenuous. For example look at source 25 "During an attempted home invasion, shots were fired and four people were wounded". In other words, four criminals tried to rob a home but the resident of the house shot 4 of them and three of them are in the hospital and one has been released to jail. I wouldn't categories that incident along with the two recent "actual" mass shootings.
  - JohnStrangeII 7y ago
    So your challenging the definition of a mass shooting they use because it somehow doesn't cohere with your personal thoughts about it. But the problem of defining a mass shooting and that various definitions are controversial is mentioned in the very first paragraph of that page. I cannot find anything disingenous about choosing an official definition and mentioning that it is problematic in the first paragraph.
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      I would characterize the home invaders as the "perpetrators" in that particular story and exclude them from the injury count, consistent with the language of that definition. From the article: Gun Violence Archive, a nonprofit research group that tracks shootings and their characteristics in the United States, defines a mass shooting as an incident in which four or more people, excluding the perpetrators, are shot in one location at roughly the same time.
      - JohnStrangeII 7y ago
        Yes, they use the official definition of the term "mass shooting", as it was adopted after 2013 by the US congress, which defines it as a shooting with 3 or more victims. Moreover, they mention in the very first paragraph that the definition is controversial and problematic, and they mention all alternative official definitions (e.g. before 2013) explicitly in the following paragraphs. You probably have another definition in mind, since in your mind "mass shooting" is somehow associated with classic amok runs and terrorism. But how is that a counter-argument to using the official definitions and terms, as they are defined by US congress and used by police and the US judicial system? Why on earth would it be disingenuous for them to base their statistics on the official definitions? Sure, some people think that e.g. gang-related gun violence shouldn't count as a mass shooting even if many victims are involved, but the US congress chose otherwise and the page makes it crystal clear that the definition is problematic.
- entropea 7y ago
  >2019/247 >2019/248 Counting them like this is extremely depressing yet accurate.
naasking 7y ago
> He posted a manifesto online A manifesto isn't necessarily honest. It describes how shooters want the world to view their actions, not necessarily the actual motives behind their actions.