6 ms·

So "carpe diem" is akin to saying "stop and smell the flowers". Admittedly, there was a time when I considered the phrase "memento mori" (translated as "rememb

So "carpe diem" is akin to saying "stop and smell the flowers". Admittedly, there was a time when I considered the phrase "memento mori" (translated as "remember death") to be similar to the general public's interpretation of "carpe diem", though a closer examination shows it's more focused on the acceptance of one's mortality.

acqq 7y ago
> akin to saying "stop and smell the flowers". Actually, "pluck the ripe fruit" and use the day to enjoy it, which is far from the connotation of "stop and smell", where one just stops for a moment, smells the flower and continues going wherever he goes (which would be again too convenient and matching the currently established cultural expectations). The Chi Luu's article refers to this work by Maria S. Marsilio: https://www.jstor.org/stable/23048886?mag=how-carpe-diem-got-lost-in-translation https://www.jstor.org/stable/23048886?mag=how-carpe-diem-got... published in 2010 which analyzes the poem. We also have the whole poem with the recent translation online: https://www.loebclassics.com/view/horace-odes/2004/pb_LCL033.45.xml https://www.loebclassics.com/view/horace-odes/2004/pb_LCL033... so everybody can read it himself. According to the 2010 Marsilio's scholarly article (and my understanding of it) in the poem the poet speaks to Leuconoe, a woman who wanted to consult the horoscopes about her and him, he being the poet himself, that is, she cautiously wanted to see what would future bring to two of them together (probably to decide if she'd accept the poet's approach). The poet, conveniently for him, tells the woman to "pluck the day" (which is seen by some as having almost an erotic feel) and not worry for the long-term future, even to "cut back far-reaching hopes to within a small space". In the words of Marsilio: "Horace wants to share with Leuconoe the pleasures of the present - chiefly wine and love - since "envious time" (invida aetas) attempts to rob them of the enjoyments of life and they may not have the future to enjoy these pleasures." And the article we all comment here, by Chi Luu, argues that "Gathering flowers as a metaphor for timely enjoyment is a far gentler, more sensual image than the rather forceful and even violent concept of seizing the moment" and "By seizing the day rather than plucking it like a flower, however, we’re actually conforming to hidden cultural values that we all share, not looking at the world in a different way from the norm, but in the same way as everyone else. These are cultural values that some argue have been co-opted by advertisers to sell us more things that we’re told will make us happier." (More argumentation is in the text, so I won't repeat it all here, but it's needed to be read to be able to discuss the article's messages).
- Izkata 7y ago
  So, more like "savour the moment"?
  - acqq 7y ago
    Sorry, no. That long article attempts to explain why one "lost in translation" and that would be another. Again, from the article: "As Latin scholar Maria S. Marsilio points out, “carpe diem” is a horticultural metaphor that, particularly seen in the context of the poem, is more accurately translated as “plucking the day,” evoking the plucking and gathering of ripening fruits or flowers, enjoying a moment that is rooted in the sensory experience of nature." (I've already plucked some ripe fruits this summer and I can only advise those who can't relate to the original meaning to try doing this once too. FWIW Steve Jobs knew and apparently that's how he named the company: http://www.minyanville.com/special-features/articles/little-known-fact-about-steve-jobs/3/22/2011/id/33106 http://www.minyanville.com/special-features/articles/little-... "Steve was coming back from a visit to Oregon to a place he called an 'apple orchard.' Steve suggested a name - Apple Computer" )
    - kazinator 7y ago
      So, "take in the day" perhaps.
jaclaz 7y ago
JFYI, "memento mori" is the motto and also a form of salute between trappist monks, to be picky it is not "remember death" but rather "remember that you will die" which is slighlty different. The origin is to tone down the (eventual) arrogance and pride of the man, it is very similar to "Memento homo quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris " ("Remember, man, that thou art dust, and to dust thou shalt return."): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Wednesday#Ashes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Wednesday#Ashes

acqq 7y ago

> akin to saying "stop and smell the flowers". Actually, "pluck the ripe fruit" and use the day to enjoy it, which is far from the connotation of "stop and smell", where one just stops for a moment, smells the flower and continues going wherever he goes (which would be again too convenient and matching the currently established cultural expectations). The Chi Luu's article refers to this work by Maria S. Marsilio: https://www.jstor.org/stable/23048886?mag=how-carpe-diem-got-lost-in-translation https://www.jstor.org/stable/23048886?mag=how-carpe-diem-got... published in 2010 which analyzes the poem. We also have the whole poem with the recent translation online: https://www.loebclassics.com/view/horace-odes/2004/pb_LCL033.45.xml https://www.loebclassics.com/view/horace-odes/2004/pb_LCL033... so everybody can read it himself. According to the 2010 Marsilio's scholarly article (and my understanding of it) in the poem the poet speaks to Leuconoe, a woman who wanted to consult the horoscopes about her and him, he being the poet himself, that is, she cautiously wanted to see what would future bring to two of them together (probably to decide if she'd accept the poet's approach). The poet, conveniently for him, tells the woman to "pluck the day" (which is seen by some as having almost an erotic feel) and not worry for the long-term future, even to "cut back far-reaching hopes to within a small space". In the words of Marsilio: "Horace wants to share with Leuconoe the pleasures of the present - chiefly wine and love - since "envious time" (invida aetas) attempts to rob them of the enjoyments of life and they may not have the future to enjoy these pleasures." And the article we all comment here, by Chi Luu, argues that "Gathering flowers as a metaphor for timely enjoyment is a far gentler, more sensual image than the rather forceful and even violent concept of seizing the moment" and "By seizing the day rather than plucking it like a flower, however, we’re actually conforming to hidden cultural values that we all share, not looking at the world in a different way from the norm, but in the same way as everyone else. These are cultural values that some argue have been co-opted by advertisers to sell us more things that we’re told will make us happier." (More argumentation is in the text, so I won't repeat it all here, but it's needed to be read to be able to discuss the article's messages).

Izkata 7y ago
So, more like "savour the moment"?
- acqq 7y ago
  Sorry, no. That long article attempts to explain why one "lost in translation" and that would be another. Again, from the article: "As Latin scholar Maria S. Marsilio points out, “carpe diem” is a horticultural metaphor that, particularly seen in the context of the poem, is more accurately translated as “plucking the day,” evoking the plucking and gathering of ripening fruits or flowers, enjoying a moment that is rooted in the sensory experience of nature." (I've already plucked some ripe fruits this summer and I can only advise those who can't relate to the original meaning to try doing this once too. FWIW Steve Jobs knew and apparently that's how he named the company: http://www.minyanville.com/special-features/articles/little-known-fact-about-steve-jobs/3/22/2011/id/33106 http://www.minyanville.com/special-features/articles/little-... "Steve was coming back from a visit to Oregon to a place he called an 'apple orchard.' Steve suggested a name - Apple Computer" )
  - kazinator 7y ago
    So, "take in the day" perhaps.

jaclaz 7y ago

JFYI, "memento mori" is the motto and also a form of salute between trappist monks, to be picky it is not "remember death" but rather "remember that you will die" which is slighlty different. The origin is to tone down the (eventual) arrogance and pride of the man, it is very similar to "Memento homo quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris " ("Remember, man, that thou art dust, and to dust thou shalt return."): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Wednesday#Ashes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Wednesday#Ashes