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I've heard a similar observation phrased slightly differently to describe Russia. If you're looking at a large Russian company, it goes, you're by definition lo
by smacktoward 7y ago
I've heard a similar observation phrased slightly differently to describe Russia. If you're looking at a large Russian company, it goes, you're by definition looking at a company that has come to some kind of accommodation with the state -- because if they hadn't, the state would never have permitted them to get large.
- lowdose 7y agoOn the surface these state owned operations look similar but the results speak to the contrary. I think Chinese corporations behave more like a beehive and Russians like a wolf pack. The Kremlin chased out a lot Russians with academic papers. China on the other hand seems to be the place that facilitates the best startup opportunities.
- 4ntonius8lock 7y agoThis makes sense. Russian economy is much less dependent on talented work force, they have vast resources in proportion to their population.
- lowdose 7y agoIf 3 million people with a master / Phd move out, your economy takes hit especially when the country's GDP is below the level of Italy.
- cbHXBY1D 7y ago> I think Chinese corporations behave more like a beehive and Russians like a wolf pack. This is an old orientalist trope.
- sbhn 7y agoGee, facebook got large
- all_usernames 7y agoConvince me this is any different in America.
- aristophenes 7y agoSeems like a lot of American companies have been working pretty hard to get around the sanctions to sell things to black listed Chinese companies. I would take that as pretty good evidence that American companies tend to be independent of the government. Also it's just pretty clear in general who has what interests in large American corporations. You can look at the chain of command up to the board of directors back to the shareholders.
- baddox 7y agoWhy wouldn’t American companies that were not independent from the government circumvent sanctions? That’s like saying that no one in the US government would have ever tried to circumvent US drug laws.
- jjeaff 7y agoIt's just not. Look at Apple's fight with the government over unlocking the iPhone as a recent example. Can you imagine a company is Russia or China fighting like that to keep secrets away?
- tthhuyid 7y agoDidn’t Snowden reveal otherwise? That if the government really wanted the information, the could just send a National Security Letter using Secret Courts. Aren’t the fates of Lavabit and MCI demonstrations of that power?
- Lendal 7y agoSnowden didn't know everything then, and he knows even less now. Also, asking a company for data or even stealing the data through subterfuge doesn't make you an owner of that company.
- philwelch 7y agoRussia, according to famed Russian dissident Garry Kasparov, operates this way more as a mafia syndicate. Corruption allows the “oligarchs” to enrich themselves with the nation’s mineral resources so long as some of their power (and even money) remains at the beck and call of the don: Putin. China is different. It’s not an oil and gas oligarchy like Russia or the Gulf states. It is somewhat like the US was during the Second World War—somewhat capitalist in form but almost entirely geared toward the strategic goals of the country, as dictated by the government. The main exceptions are that the US had elections intermittently and that the US was in the midst of total war. China isn’t at war though—it’s just a totalitarian society.
- smacktoward 7y ago> China isn’t at war though Yet.
- SEJeff 7y agoOn Russia, Bill Browder's book Red Notice does an exceptional job of going into detail describing what you mention. It is really quite special.
- jtsnow 7y agoOr as Bill Browser described it: "This whole exercise was teaching me that Russian business culture is closer to that of a prison yard than anything else. In prison, all you have is your reputation. Your position is hard-earned and it is not relinquished easily. When someone is crossing the yard coming for you, you cannot stand idly by. You have to kill him before he kills you. If you don’t, and if you manage to survive the attack, you’ll be deemed weak"
- est31 7y agoAnd if you fall out of favour, your company gets taken away from you. See Khodorkovsky as an example.
- bitL 7y agoWasn't it more like "if you try to subvert current power and install your own puppets, all using money you stole with the help of current power"? I think in China they shot such people. In US/EU that would land such person on a few blacklists instead and certain portions of business would be hard to do.
- LegitShady 7y agoThey might become secretary of state tho
- bitL 7y agoIf they win; in the aforementioned example that person lost. I never understood why should I feel any sympathies to either crook just because certain powers used them for their own purposes.
- LegitShady 7y agothey did become secretary of state, and many shady situations and abuse of power appear to have happened. I am inclined to believe the intelligence apparatus was turned against their political opponents unethically and perhaps illegally. They succeeded in this and so far they have gotten away with it. Bill Barr has had the ability to declassify for 80 days, nothing yet. I expect nothing but covering up for the DoJ and Wray's FBI.
- RavlaAlvar 7y agoAlso, see Alibaba
- joejerryronnie 7y ago
- baddox 7y agoSo it’s claimed true for Russia and China. So what are the odds that it turns out it’s true of the United States too, and maybe it’s just easier for me to accept the other accusations based on brief HN comments simply because I’m from the United States and I’m used to hearing Russia and China described as enemies or opponents of the US?
- alexashka 7y agoI fail to see how this would by definition, not be true, in any country with any form of government. Any entity that wields power, is a potential threat to a monopoly power holder (the state), and as a result, has to be collaborated with, or fought against.
- closeparen 7y agoWhat kind of accommodation? Most places have regulations and taxes.