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My company gives us unlimited time off - provided your team isn't going to be left with too few people then you just stick it in the calendar. It's incredibly l

My company gives us unlimited time off - provided your team isn't going to be left with too few people then you just stick it in the calendar. It's incredibly liberating not having to plan your holidays to ensure you stay within X days, not having to request approval etc.

alistairSH 7y ago
Curious, how much vacation do your peers at the company take each year? Rough guess is fine. I ask because I've heard that "unlimited vacation" actually results in LESS vacation being taken because employees are afraid to be seen as the one abusing the system (even though taking 4+ week/year should be norm). Somewhat related, I loathe the trend of grouping sick and vacation time into a single bucket (for those in the EU, in the US, if you're sick you have to burn leave, the concept of "you're sick, stay home" doesn't really exist).
- DanFeldman 7y ago
  It's easy to not take enough vacation at companies w/ unlimited vacation. Anecdotally, most of my peers at companies w/ unlimited vacation take less vacation than traditionally counted vacation days. I work at a place w/ unlimited vacation and take about 4-4.5 weeks per year. A big reason I actually get to take this much vacation is because our founders & senior leadership also take vacation. I could easily see a world where our sr leadership didn't take any time off and there was implicit pressure to not use vacation time.
  - gregspies 7y ago
    That 4-4.5 weeks is less than the minimum amount of time I'm allowed to take off (not sure if it's strictly required but HR would start chasing me). Assuming weekends are taken off by default, 4.5 weeks is about 23 days, which is quite far down this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b...
    - Ididntdothis 7y ago
      Looking at this table the best countries in terms of leave are muslim countries. Lots of public holidays.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    I get 4 weeks guaranteed and I make sure to take them. In Germany I had 6 weeks. If “unlimited” translates to 4 and you feel lucky that you actually get that much then “unlimited” feels like a scam to guilt trip people into less vacation and not having to pay out any when people leave. I guess you also don’t accrue any for a longer trip if you take off less one year.
  - Aaargh20318 7y ago
    4 weeks is the legal minimum where I live, so that doesn’t seem like a lot at all. Also, the problem with unlimited vacation days is that you don’t get paid for unused days when you quit your job.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      I suspect that's one of the driving factors at tech companies where many people hop between jobs every couple of years or so. The difference adds up for companies, especially if people don't take a lot of vacation anyway. Personally, I've tended to stay at jobs for substantial periods of time although I've still gotten fairly nice vacation payouts on a couple of occasions. (Once and I think the statute of limitations is probably up on this one given the company doesn't exist--I got laid off in the dot-bomb era almost immediately after returning from a 3 week vacation I hadn't quite gotten around to entering yet.)
- CuriouslyC 7y ago
  I have unlimited vacation and I clock in about 8-10 weeks a year. It isn't true vacation though, because I'm still on the hook to put out fires, and my teammates are accidental pyromaniacs.
  - hombre_fatal 7y ago
    That just sounds like you work remotely for 8-10 weeks.
    - CuriouslyC 7y ago
      I work remotely all the time, I tell my co-workers to leave me alone except in emergencies for 8-10. Sadly my coworkers are firestarters. I really need better coworkers...
- xur17 7y ago
  > Curious, how much vacation do your peers at the company take each year? Rough guess is fine. I worked at a place with unlimited vacation in the past, and took ~4 weeks per year. To be honest, if anything, my boss pushed me to take more. In the end I really think it comes down to your boss.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    I heard a funny story from a senior guy at one of the big Bay Area tech companies (that has "unlimited" vacation) a little while back. They apparently hired a new PR person who quit after about six months because she couldn't deal with the fact that the CEO took vacations and he really took vacations in the "I'm on vacation. Handle whatever it is without me." sort of sense. It was just so alien that it completely stressed her out.
    - mgkimsal 7y ago
      was that the thing that really stressed her out? or was every decision second-guessed once he got back? "handle things while I'm away" isn't as easy as it sounds if you're not supported in the decisions you make.
      - ghaff 7y ago
        No idea. I have no personal knowledge of the situation. However I have no trouble believing (based on personal experience) that a lot of people aren't comfortable making "executive decisions" on their own. Yes, sometimes it's because they rightly fear potential consequences. But other times, they just don't want the responsibility.
- philwelch 7y ago
  I worked at a company once with unlimited vacation but limited sick leave. Riddle me that.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    Perhaps a cover-their-ass rule to fulfill legal requirement to offer a minimum number of hours/days of sick leave.
  - hermanradtke 7y ago
    Some states require a minimum amount of sick days that accrue on the books.
  - mistersquid 7y ago
    Typically, vacation requires advance notice. Sick time is on-demand.
- PUDXGLVIZW 7y ago
  I want to chime in because I've never actually witnessed horror stories about "unlimited vacation" that people talk about. I'm now at my 2nd job with "unlimited vacation". The general consensus, based on discussion with my peers, is that they take 4 - 5 weeks. This matches my own experience. EDIT: Also to add, I have seen folks take more than that. Often these are senior people traveling to home countries that involve very long flights. They might take 6 - 8 a year.
- glitchcrab 7y ago
  Rough guess would be around the 6 week mark. It may not be on traditional holidays per se, but I took a day off to help my parents fit CCTV last week - those individual days start to add up too. The company will tell you to take some time off if you're not taking enough.
- P_I_Staker 7y ago
  > in the US, if you're sick you have to burn leave, the concept of "you're sick, stay home" doesn't really exist As always this depends where you work. There's reasons for removing "sick days", that aren't in the employees interest. I take 2-5 per year. For some people, if they have 10, they'd use 10. Kinda like how "unlimited vacation", can mean less vacation, as people don't want to be that guy, or hurt their career.
CuriouslyC 7y ago
I have this privilege also, but I find that it's kind of a double edged sword. I can take "vacations" whenever I want, but I can't completely escape work when I do. I've had teammates do things like request a push to prod over vacation, while not mentioning that the prod database had also undergone a pretty large schema change (with no documentation!), then basically beg me to fix it because performance reviews were coming up in a few days.
- ferzul 7y ago
  How about if you're international? If there's a serious problem at work (and the bus number is one) I can't fix it because (a) it isn't legal to work while on leave (b) I'm overseas and it isn't legal to work on my visa. So if something goes won't, they're stuffed. at least that's they're fault.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    At least for Americans, (a) is presumably very uncommon and (b) is never really a problem in my experience. Even if you're on a tourist visa, answering a work email or phone call isn't an issue. (Attending a conference or setting up in a co-work space for a few days may be, depending on the country, of course.)
- ghaff 7y ago
  It's admittedly less common than it used to be but sometimes you're vacationing somewhere that just doesn't have connectivity. Even leaving aside being off in the Himalayas or wherever, even a lot of areas in the western US like Death Valley have pretty limited coverage. And, if I'm backpacking, even if I have a cell signal there's not much I can do if it's not something I can fix with a few words based on what's in my brain. To the broader point though. I do find being mostly connected is largely a plus. It's easier to take time off when I know that I can do a bit of flexible work and can be reached when needed rather than being tethered to a network just in case. I have worked both ways over my career and I much prefer today.
- glitchcrab 7y ago
  Then that is an issue with the company culture, processes and staffing. Holiday is holiday - I've never worked anywhere which would expect me to remain contactable whilst on holiday.
dredmorbius 7y ago
But is there an enforced minimum? If not, UTO tends to NTO.
Vinnl 7y ago
Is that paid time off?

alistairSH 7y ago

Curious, how much vacation do your peers at the company take each year? Rough guess is fine. I ask because I've heard that "unlimited vacation" actually results in LESS vacation being taken because employees are afraid to be seen as the one abusing the system (even though taking 4+ week/year should be norm). Somewhat related, I loathe the trend of grouping sick and vacation time into a single bucket (for those in the EU, in the US, if you're sick you have to burn leave, the concept of "you're sick, stay home" doesn't really exist).

DanFeldman 7y ago
It's easy to not take enough vacation at companies w/ unlimited vacation. Anecdotally, most of my peers at companies w/ unlimited vacation take less vacation than traditionally counted vacation days. I work at a place w/ unlimited vacation and take about 4-4.5 weeks per year. A big reason I actually get to take this much vacation is because our founders & senior leadership also take vacation. I could easily see a world where our sr leadership didn't take any time off and there was implicit pressure to not use vacation time.
- gregspies 7y ago
  That 4-4.5 weeks is less than the minimum amount of time I'm allowed to take off (not sure if it's strictly required but HR would start chasing me). Assuming weekends are taken off by default, 4.5 weeks is about 23 days, which is quite far down this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b...
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    Looking at this table the best countries in terms of leave are muslim countries. Lots of public holidays.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  I get 4 weeks guaranteed and I make sure to take them. In Germany I had 6 weeks. If “unlimited” translates to 4 and you feel lucky that you actually get that much then “unlimited” feels like a scam to guilt trip people into less vacation and not having to pay out any when people leave. I guess you also don’t accrue any for a longer trip if you take off less one year.
- Aaargh20318 7y ago
  4 weeks is the legal minimum where I live, so that doesn’t seem like a lot at all. Also, the problem with unlimited vacation days is that you don’t get paid for unused days when you quit your job.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    I suspect that's one of the driving factors at tech companies where many people hop between jobs every couple of years or so. The difference adds up for companies, especially if people don't take a lot of vacation anyway. Personally, I've tended to stay at jobs for substantial periods of time although I've still gotten fairly nice vacation payouts on a couple of occasions. (Once and I think the statute of limitations is probably up on this one given the company doesn't exist--I got laid off in the dot-bomb era almost immediately after returning from a 3 week vacation I hadn't quite gotten around to entering yet.)
CuriouslyC 7y ago
I have unlimited vacation and I clock in about 8-10 weeks a year. It isn't true vacation though, because I'm still on the hook to put out fires, and my teammates are accidental pyromaniacs.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  That just sounds like you work remotely for 8-10 weeks.
  - CuriouslyC 7y ago
    I work remotely all the time, I tell my co-workers to leave me alone except in emergencies for 8-10. Sadly my coworkers are firestarters. I really need better coworkers...
xur17 7y ago
> Curious, how much vacation do your peers at the company take each year? Rough guess is fine. I worked at a place with unlimited vacation in the past, and took ~4 weeks per year. To be honest, if anything, my boss pushed me to take more. In the end I really think it comes down to your boss.
- ghaff 7y ago
  I heard a funny story from a senior guy at one of the big Bay Area tech companies (that has "unlimited" vacation) a little while back. They apparently hired a new PR person who quit after about six months because she couldn't deal with the fact that the CEO took vacations and he really took vacations in the "I'm on vacation. Handle whatever it is without me." sort of sense. It was just so alien that it completely stressed her out.
  - mgkimsal 7y ago
    was that the thing that really stressed her out? or was every decision second-guessed once he got back? "handle things while I'm away" isn't as easy as it sounds if you're not supported in the decisions you make.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      No idea. I have no personal knowledge of the situation. However I have no trouble believing (based on personal experience) that a lot of people aren't comfortable making "executive decisions" on their own. Yes, sometimes it's because they rightly fear potential consequences. But other times, they just don't want the responsibility.
philwelch 7y ago
I worked at a company once with unlimited vacation but limited sick leave. Riddle me that.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  Perhaps a cover-their-ass rule to fulfill legal requirement to offer a minimum number of hours/days of sick leave.
- hermanradtke 7y ago
  Some states require a minimum amount of sick days that accrue on the books.
- mistersquid 7y ago
  Typically, vacation requires advance notice. Sick time is on-demand.
PUDXGLVIZW 7y ago
I want to chime in because I've never actually witnessed horror stories about "unlimited vacation" that people talk about. I'm now at my 2nd job with "unlimited vacation". The general consensus, based on discussion with my peers, is that they take 4 - 5 weeks. This matches my own experience. EDIT: Also to add, I have seen folks take more than that. Often these are senior people traveling to home countries that involve very long flights. They might take 6 - 8 a year.
glitchcrab 7y ago
Rough guess would be around the 6 week mark. It may not be on traditional holidays per se, but I took a day off to help my parents fit CCTV last week - those individual days start to add up too. The company will tell you to take some time off if you're not taking enough.
P_I_Staker 7y ago
> in the US, if you're sick you have to burn leave, the concept of "you're sick, stay home" doesn't really exist As always this depends where you work. There's reasons for removing "sick days", that aren't in the employees interest. I take 2-5 per year. For some people, if they have 10, they'd use 10. Kinda like how "unlimited vacation", can mean less vacation, as people don't want to be that guy, or hurt their career.

CuriouslyC 7y ago

I have this privilege also, but I find that it's kind of a double edged sword. I can take "vacations" whenever I want, but I can't completely escape work when I do. I've had teammates do things like request a push to prod over vacation, while not mentioning that the prod database had also undergone a pretty large schema change (with no documentation!), then basically beg me to fix it because performance reviews were coming up in a few days.

ferzul 7y ago
How about if you're international? If there's a serious problem at work (and the bus number is one) I can't fix it because (a) it isn't legal to work while on leave (b) I'm overseas and it isn't legal to work on my visa. So if something goes won't, they're stuffed. at least that's they're fault.
- ghaff 7y ago
  At least for Americans, (a) is presumably very uncommon and (b) is never really a problem in my experience. Even if you're on a tourist visa, answering a work email or phone call isn't an issue. (Attending a conference or setting up in a co-work space for a few days may be, depending on the country, of course.)
ghaff 7y ago
It's admittedly less common than it used to be but sometimes you're vacationing somewhere that just doesn't have connectivity. Even leaving aside being off in the Himalayas or wherever, even a lot of areas in the western US like Death Valley have pretty limited coverage. And, if I'm backpacking, even if I have a cell signal there's not much I can do if it's not something I can fix with a few words based on what's in my brain. To the broader point though. I do find being mostly connected is largely a plus. It's easier to take time off when I know that I can do a bit of flexible work and can be reached when needed rather than being tethered to a network just in case. I have worked both ways over my career and I much prefer today.
glitchcrab 7y ago
Then that is an issue with the company culture, processes and staffing. Holiday is holiday - I've never worked anywhere which would expect me to remain contactable whilst on holiday.

dredmorbius 7y ago

But is there an enforced minimum? If not, UTO tends to NTO.

Vinnl 7y ago

Is that paid time off?