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I'm Korean. The author's principal mistake is casting Western anxieties onto a radically different society. This projection reveals nothing about Korea. It serv

I'm Korean. The author's principal mistake is casting Western anxieties onto a radically different society. This projection reveals nothing about Korea. It serves only as a linear multiplier of Western anxieties. Confucianism and Taoism, the principal founding blocks of Korean consciousness, are deeply feminist. (Look up "Confucian feminism", "Taoist feminism", or "Do-ol" on any search engine; or just consider the fact that Feng Shui is a vagina-worshipping cult) The patriarchy apparent in them is only superficial. The superficial patriarchical aspects of Confucianism have sometimes morphed with the deeply patriarchal aspects of Christianity, and have produced some devastating effects, I admit. Point is, you are absolutely correct, the author is exoticizing without any understanding of Korean society beyond the superficial.

oska 7y ago
It's rather disappointing to see a self-identified Korean being (currently) downvoted in an article all about Korea. Even if you disagree with their thesis that "the principal founding blocks of Korean consciousness are deeply feminist", it's still an interesting take. And their other point that the author is exoticising Korea is bang on I think. We have seen the same for decades with Japan and its population decline. Seems like it's Korea's turn now. And why can't the LA Review of Books employ a Korean to write its 'Korea Blog'? Why do we always have non-anglophone countries being "explained" by anglophones?
- jeromebaek 7y ago
  Whenever I write a comment calling out Eurocentrism on HN, and I get downvoted, I know I'm doing something right. :)
  - Barrin92 7y ago
    as a German user I sometimes feel like I'm being lumped in with the generally very 'American' attitude of the website, funnily enough you don't even need to go as far as Korea. In particular in tech circles it feels like people adopt very universalist attitudes instead of keeping in mind that different cultures are anything but.
- yongjik 7y ago
  I'm Korean: I didn't downvote GP, but honestly the argument doesn't look good. Korea used to be a highly sexist/Confucian country for the past several centuries (and still is, to a degree). Confucianism are Taoism are about as much feminist as Christianity and Islam, that is, you can make them look feminist if you want. They are all ancient philosophies practiced by diverse peoples. Something is bound to sound feminist if you look hard enough. Besides Korea is not exactly a threatened Amazonian tribe. It has literate tradition going back ~2,000 years, chip factories, skyscrapers, and idol groups. (I heard some of them are even popular worldwide these days.) There's certainly enough room for non-Koreans to talk about Korea. * Finally, Do-ol (도올) is a quack. For an expert of traditional Asian philosophy, he always seemed too eager to promote himself rather than, you know, doing actual study of the values he's supposedly an expert of. Doubly ironic, considering how much traditional Confucian philosophy despised self-promotion. I heard he used to even praise Xi Jinping as an ideal Confucian ruler, so go figure.
  - jeromebaek 7y ago
    Traditional Confucian philosophy certainly did not despise self-promotion. Confucius proclaimed himself the greatest sage alive, and his arrogant attitude turned off every ruler he was trying to advise. I wouldn't call Do-ol the greatest sage alive, but he is one of the most original and prolific thinkers in modern Korean philosophy. Before you dismiss him as a quack, try reading at least one of his fifty books.
    - DuskStar 7y ago
      > Traditional Confucian philosophy certainly did not despise self-promotion. Confucius proclaimed himself the greatest sage alive, and his arrogant attitude turned off every ruler he was trying to advise. This doesn't actually follow - "do as I say, not as I do" and all that. The actions of the philosopher and the preferences of the philosophy do not have to match.
- pnathan 7y ago
  > And why can't the LA Review of Books employ a Korean to write its 'Korea Blog'? Why do we always have non-anglophone countries being "explained" by anglophones? I was wondering the same, myself. I'm sure they could run a group of Korean & Korean-American stringers to contribute weekly articles. It's LA - I'm sure there are a few Koreans around. If nothing else, "Current Events"(tm) would suggest that having a better understanding of Korean culture and history would serve the American populace well...
stebann 7y ago
Why the downvotes? Can someone explain? Why westerns (I'm not going to say "anglos") always project their culture? You're not unique, you know.
zenbai 7y ago
So a Korean, who probably knows more about the topic of Korean culture than the average American HN reader, gives their view and somehow these other readers think they know better and downvote him/her? Typical HN attitude really ... people on this board seem to have this "know it all / know it better than you" attitude even when they clearly don't. As someone who is not a Westerner or American, this place always makes me feel that it is just a self validating echo chamber being so sure of your views even when it isn't matched to reality.

oska 7y ago

It's rather disappointing to see a self-identified Korean being (currently) downvoted in an article all about Korea. Even if you disagree with their thesis that "the principal founding blocks of Korean consciousness are deeply feminist", it's still an interesting take. And their other point that the author is exoticising Korea is bang on I think. We have seen the same for decades with Japan and its population decline. Seems like it's Korea's turn now. And why can't the LA Review of Books employ a Korean to write its 'Korea Blog'? Why do we always have non-anglophone countries being "explained" by anglophones?

jeromebaek 7y ago
Whenever I write a comment calling out Eurocentrism on HN, and I get downvoted, I know I'm doing something right. :)
- Barrin92 7y ago
  as a German user I sometimes feel like I'm being lumped in with the generally very 'American' attitude of the website, funnily enough you don't even need to go as far as Korea. In particular in tech circles it feels like people adopt very universalist attitudes instead of keeping in mind that different cultures are anything but.
yongjik 7y ago
I'm Korean: I didn't downvote GP, but honestly the argument doesn't look good. Korea used to be a highly sexist/Confucian country for the past several centuries (and still is, to a degree). Confucianism are Taoism are about as much feminist as Christianity and Islam, that is, you can make them look feminist if you want. They are all ancient philosophies practiced by diverse peoples. Something is bound to sound feminist if you look hard enough. Besides Korea is not exactly a threatened Amazonian tribe. It has literate tradition going back ~2,000 years, chip factories, skyscrapers, and idol groups. (I heard some of them are even popular worldwide these days.) There's certainly enough room for non-Koreans to talk about Korea. * Finally, Do-ol (도올) is a quack. For an expert of traditional Asian philosophy, he always seemed too eager to promote himself rather than, you know, doing actual study of the values he's supposedly an expert of. Doubly ironic, considering how much traditional Confucian philosophy despised self-promotion. I heard he used to even praise Xi Jinping as an ideal Confucian ruler, so go figure.
- jeromebaek 7y ago
  Traditional Confucian philosophy certainly did not despise self-promotion. Confucius proclaimed himself the greatest sage alive, and his arrogant attitude turned off every ruler he was trying to advise. I wouldn't call Do-ol the greatest sage alive, but he is one of the most original and prolific thinkers in modern Korean philosophy. Before you dismiss him as a quack, try reading at least one of his fifty books.
  - DuskStar 7y ago
    > Traditional Confucian philosophy certainly did not despise self-promotion. Confucius proclaimed himself the greatest sage alive, and his arrogant attitude turned off every ruler he was trying to advise. This doesn't actually follow - "do as I say, not as I do" and all that. The actions of the philosopher and the preferences of the philosophy do not have to match.
pnathan 7y ago
> And why can't the LA Review of Books employ a Korean to write its 'Korea Blog'? Why do we always have non-anglophone countries being "explained" by anglophones? I was wondering the same, myself. I'm sure they could run a group of Korean & Korean-American stringers to contribute weekly articles. It's LA - I'm sure there are a few Koreans around. If nothing else, "Current Events"(tm) would suggest that having a better understanding of Korean culture and history would serve the American populace well...

stebann 7y ago

Why the downvotes? Can someone explain? Why westerns (I'm not going to say "anglos") always project their culture? You're not unique, you know.

zenbai 7y ago

So a Korean, who probably knows more about the topic of Korean culture than the average American HN reader, gives their view and somehow these other readers think they know better and downvote him/her? Typical HN attitude really ... people on this board seem to have this "know it all / know it better than you" attitude even when they clearly don't. As someone who is not a Westerner or American, this place always makes me feel that it is just a self validating echo chamber being so sure of your views even when it isn't matched to reality.