7 ms·

The World’s Smartest Chimp Has Died

67 points by uptown 7y ago

SubiculumCode 7y ago
As is frequent by the media and animal enthusiasts there is a bias towards emphasizing evidence that fits your desires and beliefs, but ignoring the evidence that does not. The evidence that this chimp could use language via manipulation of "plastic magnetic tokens that varied in size and color to represent words" is weak, and the structure of the tokens made it appear to carry meaning even when randomly selected and placed, according to several experts in the field I spoke to at a conference some years ago on the matter.
- curiouser2 7y ago
  I agree, fuck this dumbass chimp.
- Svoka 7y ago
  Usually it is a good idea to refer to original work for methodology, not a heart warming journalistic report.
- ALittleLight 7y ago
  I also found the quote below to be weak evidence. Especially because the second paragraph makes it seem like "choosing the correct solution" (of two options) was more of a probabilistic thing. For one researcher she usually chose one thing and for another researcher she typically chose another. Does that mean she was solving the problem for her preferred person and prove theory of mind? Seems weak. "To have a theory of mind is to be able to attribute purpose, intention, beliefs, desires, and other attitudes to both oneself and another person or animal. In order to test whether Sarah could understand that people had thoughts that differed from her thoughts, she was presented with short video tapes where a human actor in a cage was trying to perform a task, like trying to get some bananas that were inaccessible. After watching the video Sarah was shown two pictures, one that would allow the actor to reach his goal (a box) the other not (a key). She successfully solved the problems for the actor. But there was some concern that she was putting herself into the position of the actors, which would be a pretty exciting cognitive feat on its own, but wouldn’t show that she attributed attitudes to the actors. So she was presented with more videos, one in which the actor was her favorite caretaker and another in which the actor was someone she didn’t really like. Sarah selected the right responses more often for the actor she liked, and the wrong responses for the actor she didn’t much care for."
  - dmurray 7y ago
    Agreed, it seems like there's an equally good argument for the opposite conclusion (that this experiment makes her less likely than we would have thought). Something like: she's good at mindlessly mimicking things, and pays more attention to the video when it's the trainer she likes.
2_listerine_pls 7y ago
Trump will be missed... Oh you meant the smartest?
- gnulinux 7y ago
  Do you mind not doing this in HN? This is not reddit. Thanks.
  - 2_listerine_pls 7y ago
    Sorry :(
  - scottyelich 7y ago
    Doing what? The parent is gone. Just so you know, I'll also try not to do "this" … whatever "this" might be.
    - Simon_says 7y ago
      Probably some stupid pun.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - ChrisGranger 7y ago
      You can see those flag-killed posts if you set 'showdead' to yes from your profile. It was a comment about Donald Trump.
- 420codebro 7y ago
  Yea I thought they meant Obama. Oh wait.
Iwan-Zotow 7y ago
President Trump is alive and doing well
vecter 7y ago
I frequently run this thought experiment in my head. The world's smartest chimp is as smart as a young child, maybe. Now imagine an alien race who are like us as we are to chimps. In the same way that we are unfathomably intelligent to chimps (so much so that they don't even understand how far the gap is between us and them), consider how scary it would be to encounter an alien that was that much smarter than humans are.
- Smithalicious 7y ago
  I think this only works if you consider intelligence only in relative terms. I like to think that humans have at least some "absolute" level of intelligence required to understand that another creature can be more intelligent than us, whereas chimps probably can't grasp that concept. So it'd be easier for humans, I reckon.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - tempguy9999 7y ago
    "I think" ... "I like to think" ... "probably can't grasp" ... "I reckon" Oh come on! That's pure opinion based on what? Am I supposed to be swayed by that? And if you look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bonobos_Panbanisha_%26_Kanzi_with_Sue_Savage-Rumbaugh,_2006.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bonobos_Panbanisha_%26_Ka... do you still feel that the chimps (bonobos) can't recognise SSR as being smarter in some way?
    - matharmin 7y ago
      It's thoughts in response to a thought experiment. Not every discussion needs to start with evidence.
- cscurmudgeon 7y ago
  One big difference: The chimp is not thinking about relative intelligence.
- 7y ago
sslayer 7y ago
Bobby Fischers dead?
luxuryballs 7y ago
The world’s smartest chimp that we know of.
dade_ 7y ago
I think that the smartest chimp probably isn't in captivity.
- swebs 7y ago
  That's deep, bro... * rips bong * .
patientplatypus 7y ago
Wait, so then is Mike Pence going to run in 2020?
contravariant 7y ago
When did nytimes start guessing whether I'm using private browsing? (not to mention they get it wrong, although I can guess why they might think I am using private browsing) Luckily blocking all 1st party scripts fixes it, and makes the page a lot faster to boot.

67 points by uptown 7y ago

As is frequent by the media and animal enthusiasts there is a bias towards emphasizing evidence that fits your desires and beliefs, but ignoring the evidence that does not. The evidence that this chimp could use language via manipulation of "plastic magnetic tokens that varied in size and color to represent words" is weak, and the structure of the tokens made it appear to carry meaning even when randomly selected and placed, according to several experts in the field I spoke to at a conference some years ago on the matter.

curiouser2 7y ago
I agree, fuck this dumbass chimp.
Svoka 7y ago
Usually it is a good idea to refer to original work for methodology, not a heart warming journalistic report.
ALittleLight 7y ago
I also found the quote below to be weak evidence. Especially because the second paragraph makes it seem like "choosing the correct solution" (of two options) was more of a probabilistic thing. For one researcher she usually chose one thing and for another researcher she typically chose another. Does that mean she was solving the problem for her preferred person and prove theory of mind? Seems weak. "To have a theory of mind is to be able to attribute purpose, intention, beliefs, desires, and other attitudes to both oneself and another person or animal. In order to test whether Sarah could understand that people had thoughts that differed from her thoughts, she was presented with short video tapes where a human actor in a cage was trying to perform a task, like trying to get some bananas that were inaccessible. After watching the video Sarah was shown two pictures, one that would allow the actor to reach his goal (a box) the other not (a key). She successfully solved the problems for the actor. But there was some concern that she was putting herself into the position of the actors, which would be a pretty exciting cognitive feat on its own, but wouldn’t show that she attributed attitudes to the actors. So she was presented with more videos, one in which the actor was her favorite caretaker and another in which the actor was someone she didn’t really like. Sarah selected the right responses more often for the actor she liked, and the wrong responses for the actor she didn’t much care for."
- dmurray 7y ago
  Agreed, it seems like there's an equally good argument for the opposite conclusion (that this experiment makes her less likely than we would have thought). Something like: she's good at mindlessly mimicking things, and pays more attention to the video when it's the trainer she likes.

2_listerine_pls 7y ago

Trump will be missed... Oh you meant the smartest?

gnulinux 7y ago
Do you mind not doing this in HN? This is not reddit. Thanks.
- 2_listerine_pls 7y ago
  Sorry :(
- scottyelich 7y ago
  Doing what? The parent is gone. Just so you know, I'll also try not to do "this" … whatever "this" might be.
  - Simon_says 7y ago
    Probably some stupid pun.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - ChrisGranger 7y ago
    You can see those flag-killed posts if you set 'showdead' to yes from your profile. It was a comment about Donald Trump.
420codebro 7y ago
Yea I thought they meant Obama. Oh wait.

Iwan-Zotow 7y ago

President Trump is alive and doing well

vecter 7y ago

I frequently run this thought experiment in my head. The world's smartest chimp is as smart as a young child, maybe. Now imagine an alien race who are like us as we are to chimps. In the same way that we are unfathomably intelligent to chimps (so much so that they don't even understand how far the gap is between us and them), consider how scary it would be to encounter an alien that was that much smarter than humans are.

Smithalicious 7y ago
I think this only works if you consider intelligence only in relative terms. I like to think that humans have at least some "absolute" level of intelligence required to understand that another creature can be more intelligent than us, whereas chimps probably can't grasp that concept. So it'd be easier for humans, I reckon.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- tempguy9999 7y ago
  "I think" ... "I like to think" ... "probably can't grasp" ... "I reckon" Oh come on! That's pure opinion based on what? Am I supposed to be swayed by that? And if you look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bonobos_Panbanisha_%26_Kanzi_with_Sue_Savage-Rumbaugh,_2006.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bonobos_Panbanisha_%26_Ka... do you still feel that the chimps (bonobos) can't recognise SSR as being smarter in some way?
  - matharmin 7y ago
    It's thoughts in response to a thought experiment. Not every discussion needs to start with evidence.
cscurmudgeon 7y ago
One big difference: The chimp is not thinking about relative intelligence.
7y ago

sslayer 7y ago

Bobby Fischers dead?

luxuryballs 7y ago

The world’s smartest chimp that we know of.

dade_ 7y ago

I think that the smartest chimp probably isn't in captivity.

swebs 7y ago
That's deep, bro... * rips bong * .

patientplatypus 7y ago

Wait, so then is Mike Pence going to run in 2020?

contravariant 7y ago

When did nytimes start guessing whether I'm using private browsing? (not to mention they get it wrong, although I can guess why they might think I am using private browsing) Luckily blocking all 1st party scripts fixes it, and makes the page a lot faster to boot.