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This is all very interesting and amazing, and kudos to the person for being able to do this - but I think we need to take a step back here a bit; this doesn't l

by cr0sh 7y ago

This is all very interesting and amazing, and kudos to the person for being able to do this - but I think we need to take a step back here a bit; this doesn't look like something that "just anybody" could replicate. For one, this person seems to have some very advanced knowledge of some very advanced processes - I am not even sure where one would gain such knowledge from easily, though they do seem to have access to MIT in some manner. Regardless of how it was gained, this knowledge of some of the very basic processes and advanced tools involved would be foundational to this entire enterprise (and it seems this person went to the trouble to build up to this - but what foundation of knowledge they had prior to that point seem unknown?). Secondly, they appear to have something more than just a simple "2-car garage" - unless the camera perspective is really skewed. The building they are in looks to be like a large steel fabricated unit, 40'x 20'x 12' - my numbers might be off but it doesn't look like a simple garage or workshop, but rather something you'd either pay a lot of money for to have erected on your (likely sizeable) property, or its space at a leased business/industrial complex. Third, from what I gather, much of their equipment is resold industrial surplus off ebay (and probably other places); I know of one company, local to me (Phoenix), which sells online via ebay such equipment (Equipment Exchange) - assuming they are still in business. While what they sold was inexpensive - even at "pennies on the dollar" you are not talking small amounts of money, because some of that equipment is anything but inexpensive brand-new. I'm sure there are other vendors as well for this kind of equipment, and if you know what you want and need, you can probably strike some good bargains, but I still can't imagine this being budget friendly for most people. This all adds up to what seems to be a "hobby" that would require both extreme dedication (time, energy, and knowledge acquisition) and considerable monetary resources to implement. Not something that just anyone can do - it's not a "maker friendly" endeavour. Maybe it can be miniaturized and simplified now that it's been "proven" to be possible, which is a great thing in itself (after all, it was more or less done with 3D printing and home CNC). Though I am not sure how far that can be taken - then again, people have fabricated some quite complex stuff before... So all in all - this is amazing work, and does show the possibility. But temper that with the reality of the situation: This person has some very specialized knowledge gathered over who knows what kind of timeframe, and the resources to purchase and bring together all of these tools and parts to do this kind of thing. Even with all that, they still had and have a bunch of trial and error. I'm amazed it could be done at all in a nominally "DIY" manner. Congratulations to that!

lallysingh 7y ago
Looks roughly the cost and time and space of a hobby car, right? Like a hot rod?
furi 7y ago
You're overhyping the knowledge a bit. It can't have been gathered over that great a span of time because he was only in his late teens when he did this. Also I've been able to work out most of it myself over a period of about a year using the book "Introduction to Semiconductor Manufacturing Technology" by Hong Xiao for general process layout (what steps are necessary, in what order, with what chemicals, etc.) and a scattering of papers, chemical datasheets and ResearchGate discussions for the specific parameters to use. If anybody would like to get into this kind of thing I highly recommend that book, it's very approachable for somebody coming from computing without a particular semiconductor/chemistry/material science background.
- ChickeNES 7y ago
  Do you have a list of the papers you found helpful in addition to the book?
  - furi 7y ago
    These were useful for parameters (conceptually anyway, I haven't done any hard labwork with this yet): Kirt R. Williams, Kishan Gupta, Matthew Wasilik - Etch Rates for Micromachining Processing—Part II Mark R. Jackson - Effects of Radio Frequency Power and Sulfur Hexafluoride Flowrate on Etch Rate of Silicon Dioxide S. A. Moshkalyov, C. Reyes-Betanzo, R.C. Teixeira, I. Doi, M.B. Zakia, J.A. Diniz, J. Swart - Etching of Polycrystalline Silicon in SF6 Containing Plasmas I.J. Kima, H.K. Moona, J.H. Leea, N.E. Leea, J.W. Jungc, S.H. Cho - Silicon nitride etch characteristics in SF6/O2 and C3F6O/O2 plasmas and evaluation of their global warming effects http://microchem.com/pdf/PMMA_Data_Sheet.pdf http://microchem.com/pdf/PMMA_Data_Sheet.pdf These for further general process design/example values: http://ww2.che.ufl.edu/unit-ops-lab/experiments/semiconductors/semiconductors-index.htm http://ww2.che.ufl.edu/unit-ops-lab/experiments/semiconducto... These are by no means the be all and end all, they were just useful for the parts of the process I've looked at in detail so far and there are often several options at every step for chemicals and approaches, these were suited to what I was aiming for.

by cr0sh 7y ago

lallysingh 7y ago

Looks roughly the cost and time and space of a hobby car, right? Like a hot rod?

furi 7y ago

You're overhyping the knowledge a bit. It can't have been gathered over that great a span of time because he was only in his late teens when he did this. Also I've been able to work out most of it myself over a period of about a year using the book "Introduction to Semiconductor Manufacturing Technology" by Hong Xiao for general process layout (what steps are necessary, in what order, with what chemicals, etc.) and a scattering of papers, chemical datasheets and ResearchGate discussions for the specific parameters to use. If anybody would like to get into this kind of thing I highly recommend that book, it's very approachable for somebody coming from computing without a particular semiconductor/chemistry/material science background.

ChickeNES 7y ago
Do you have a list of the papers you found helpful in addition to the book?
- furi 7y ago
  These were useful for parameters (conceptually anyway, I haven't done any hard labwork with this yet): Kirt R. Williams, Kishan Gupta, Matthew Wasilik - Etch Rates for Micromachining Processing—Part II Mark R. Jackson - Effects of Radio Frequency Power and Sulfur Hexafluoride Flowrate on Etch Rate of Silicon Dioxide S. A. Moshkalyov, C. Reyes-Betanzo, R.C. Teixeira, I. Doi, M.B. Zakia, J.A. Diniz, J. Swart - Etching of Polycrystalline Silicon in SF6 Containing Plasmas I.J. Kima, H.K. Moona, J.H. Leea, N.E. Leea, J.W. Jungc, S.H. Cho - Silicon nitride etch characteristics in SF6/O2 and C3F6O/O2 plasmas and evaluation of their global warming effects http://microchem.com/pdf/PMMA_Data_Sheet.pdf http://microchem.com/pdf/PMMA_Data_Sheet.pdf These for further general process design/example values: http://ww2.che.ufl.edu/unit-ops-lab/experiments/semiconductors/semiconductors-index.htm http://ww2.che.ufl.edu/unit-ops-lab/experiments/semiconducto... These are by no means the be all and end all, they were just useful for the parts of the process I've looked at in detail so far and there are often several options at every step for chemicals and approaches, these were suited to what I was aiming for.