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>If people want to know the truth about a person badly enough, they will. This is an example of the “just world fallacy.” There are many people so intelligent

>If people want to know the truth about a person badly enough, they will. This is an example of the “just world fallacy.” There are many people so intelligent that they can cheat for so long and not get caught. Look at Michael Jackson. He died innocent in the eyes of the law. Or look at the Zodiac killer: he’s still out there. Whole lotta people “trying to find the truth about that person”, as you say, and after decades and decades they got nothin’. The world is not fair or just. Cheaters can cheat and get away with it, and they can do this in perpetuity. To think otherwise is to make a classic logical error. If people want to know the truth about a person badly enough, they’re fucked. Because the truth is elusive. And the world ain’t fair.

warent 7y ago
Not to veer too far off topic here but Michael Jackson died innocent because he was innocent. He was greatly misunderstood and a fire of experienced racism that was fed by the media. Here's an article you might find interesting: https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_610258 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_610258
- tboyd47 7y ago
  Thanks for sharing! Great article.
- quacked 7y ago
  Isn't this out-of-date after the new documentary "Leaving Neverland"?
  - nicolashahn 7y ago
    Looks like a no: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaving_Neverland#Criticisms_of_allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaving_Neverland#Criticisms_o... > "[Robson and Safechuck] have previously testified under oath, under intense cross-examination, [have] maintained for twenty years a consistent story about Michael Jackson being innocent, and they come forward and completely change their story. That in itself is discrediting." Looks more like they realized they could make a bunch of money on a controversial "documentary" without getting hit with a defamation lawsuit, since MJ is dead.
    - lowdose 7y ago
      They were kids and changed their mind when they became adults. This is a very common pattern in the behavior of abused people. > American singer Barbra Streisand spoke in Jackson's defense, saying "his sexual needs were his sexual needs" and that the accusers had been "thrilled" to be with him. She added that the accusers were "both married and they both have children, so it didn't kill them".[73]Streisand later apologized and expressed sympathy for the accusers.[74] What a comment coming from a woman that didn't even want to have a nude picture in the press. Which blew up in her face and is called that the Streisand effect.
      - qohen 7y ago
        Hopefully not too much of a derail, but: the "Streisand effect" had nothing to do with nude photos [0]: It is named after American entertainer Barbra Streisand, whose 2003 attempt to suppress photographs of her residence in Malibu, California inadvertently drew further public attention to it. But, today I learned, the name seems to have been coined to describe something else a couple of years later [1]: Mike Masnick of Techdirt coined the term in 2005 in relation to a holiday resort issuing a takedown notice to urinal.net (a site dedicated to photographs of urinals) over use of the resort's name. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect#Origin_of_the_term https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect#Origin_of_the...
        lowdose 7y ago
        You are completely right, but this sounds to me like this puts Streisand in an even worse position.
    - dondawest 7y ago
      Watch the documentary dude. Safechuck and Robson are legit. In addition to the other accusers. MJ was guilty as hell. They only testified on Michael’s defense team under pressure and duress and witness tampering. Safechuck and Robson are definitely legit.
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    It's not out of date. It merely references a specific case. But, it has little bearing on other cases, those detailed in the documentary.
- dlbucci 7y ago
  I believed he was innocent too, until I saw Leaving Neverland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaving_Neverland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaving_Neverland
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    Have you read the huffpost link above and the wiki link of rebuttal below?
    - mixmastamyk 7y ago
      So, I've read more and watched the doc. My take, those rebuttals may be accurate but they represent only a slice of what went on. The two stories in the doc may not be 100% credible either, but are quite detailed. One thing I didn't realize, and which changed my thinking about the subject, was that the kids were alone with him one at a time in a serialized manner. From the descriptions I always thought it was more like a sleepover party atmosphere at Neverland and why I was not inclined to believe the allegations.
      - dondawest 7y ago
        Yes. I believed MJ’s innocence too... I so desperately wanted to believe in his innocence because he was such an incredible artist... until I saw the documentary and did more research. He had “child companions” one at a time, alone in his room, with a silent alarm to let him know if anyone approached. That moment of Jimmy Safechuck describing how he cried on the bed as he realized he was no longer Michael’s favorite “companion” was absolutely heart-wrenching to me. It wasn’t a “slumber party atmosphere.” It was a one-on-one predation atmosphere. To me, Diane Dimond said it best: “Is Michael Jackson the incredible victim of multiple extortion attempts? Or is he simply a man that is a pedophile?” I can’t believe the amount of MJ truthing in this thread and Im glad you’ve seen the light. I agree that the stories in the doc may not be 100% credible, but Jimmy Safechuck is simply not a Machiavellian personality type, IMO. I strongly believe Safechuck and Robson, strongly believe that MJ was guilty as hell, and thanks for circling back to discuss your findings.
dang 7y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20657322 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20657322.

warent 7y ago

Not to veer too far off topic here but Michael Jackson died innocent because he was innocent. He was greatly misunderstood and a fire of experienced racism that was fed by the media. Here's an article you might find interesting: https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_610258 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_610258

tboyd47 7y ago
Thanks for sharing! Great article.
quacked 7y ago
Isn't this out-of-date after the new documentary "Leaving Neverland"?
- nicolashahn 7y ago
  Looks like a no: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaving_Neverland#Criticisms_of_allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaving_Neverland#Criticisms_o... > "[Robson and Safechuck] have previously testified under oath, under intense cross-examination, [have] maintained for twenty years a consistent story about Michael Jackson being innocent, and they come forward and completely change their story. That in itself is discrediting." Looks more like they realized they could make a bunch of money on a controversial "documentary" without getting hit with a defamation lawsuit, since MJ is dead.
  - lowdose 7y ago
    They were kids and changed their mind when they became adults. This is a very common pattern in the behavior of abused people. > American singer Barbra Streisand spoke in Jackson's defense, saying "his sexual needs were his sexual needs" and that the accusers had been "thrilled" to be with him. She added that the accusers were "both married and they both have children, so it didn't kill them".[73]Streisand later apologized and expressed sympathy for the accusers.[74] What a comment coming from a woman that didn't even want to have a nude picture in the press. Which blew up in her face and is called that the Streisand effect.
    - qohen 7y ago
      Hopefully not too much of a derail, but: the "Streisand effect" had nothing to do with nude photos [0]: It is named after American entertainer Barbra Streisand, whose 2003 attempt to suppress photographs of her residence in Malibu, California inadvertently drew further public attention to it. But, today I learned, the name seems to have been coined to describe something else a couple of years later [1]: Mike Masnick of Techdirt coined the term in 2005 in relation to a holiday resort issuing a takedown notice to urinal.net (a site dedicated to photographs of urinals) over use of the resort's name. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect#Origin_of_the_term https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect#Origin_of_the...
      - lowdose 7y ago
        You are completely right, but this sounds to me like this puts Streisand in an even worse position.
  - dondawest 7y ago
    Watch the documentary dude. Safechuck and Robson are legit. In addition to the other accusers. MJ was guilty as hell. They only testified on Michael’s defense team under pressure and duress and witness tampering. Safechuck and Robson are definitely legit.
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  It's not out of date. It merely references a specific case. But, it has little bearing on other cases, those detailed in the documentary.
dlbucci 7y ago
I believed he was innocent too, until I saw Leaving Neverland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaving_Neverland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaving_Neverland
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Have you read the huffpost link above and the wiki link of rebuttal below?
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    So, I've read more and watched the doc. My take, those rebuttals may be accurate but they represent only a slice of what went on. The two stories in the doc may not be 100% credible either, but are quite detailed. One thing I didn't realize, and which changed my thinking about the subject, was that the kids were alone with him one at a time in a serialized manner. From the descriptions I always thought it was more like a sleepover party atmosphere at Neverland and why I was not inclined to believe the allegations.
    - dondawest 7y ago
      Yes. I believed MJ’s innocence too... I so desperately wanted to believe in his innocence because he was such an incredible artist... until I saw the documentary and did more research. He had “child companions” one at a time, alone in his room, with a silent alarm to let him know if anyone approached. That moment of Jimmy Safechuck describing how he cried on the bed as he realized he was no longer Michael’s favorite “companion” was absolutely heart-wrenching to me. It wasn’t a “slumber party atmosphere.” It was a one-on-one predation atmosphere. To me, Diane Dimond said it best: “Is Michael Jackson the incredible victim of multiple extortion attempts? Or is he simply a man that is a pedophile?” I can’t believe the amount of MJ truthing in this thread and Im glad you’ve seen the light. I agree that the stories in the doc may not be 100% credible, but Jimmy Safechuck is simply not a Machiavellian personality type, IMO. I strongly believe Safechuck and Robson, strongly believe that MJ was guilty as hell, and thanks for circling back to discuss your findings.

dang 7y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20657322 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20657322.