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I’d personally be fine to participate the US style work ethic if it results in a more competitive economy, more innovation, and greater total opportunity for th

I’d personally be fine to participate the US style work ethic if it results in a more competitive economy, more innovation, and greater total opportunity for the minority who are willing and able to undergo greater stress and risk to build a business or sell specialized skills. That being said, it’s not ethically or morally better in any type of absolute sense, and there are many who’d prefer to have the government take care of their well being. Relationships between employers and employees in any type of market driven economy (and I’d also argue in non market driven economies as well) is bound to be adversarial. Up to a point, I personally don’t trust the government (or a union for that matter) to ameliorate the deleterious effects of this employer-employee relationship. I’d rather have more personal freedom to navigate it myself, by developing skills or products which I can sell to a large, relatively unrestricted market. That means that many workers will probably be taken advantage of. But honestly, not everyone is capable of being a high powered professional or CEO in the first place. It’s up to each individual to decide what type of society they want to live in. There are pros and cons to each. I agree with your point that greater hardship for average workers will most likely occur in less restrictive market economies.

candiodari 7y ago
The problem you're forgetting is that there is one HUGE difference between the "hustle" approach and the "social justice" approach. In both cases, the world is still the world, and the economy is still the economy. Which means, people need to work for things to happen. People are the ones that will have to do all that. That does not change. What changes is how this is achieved: "hustle" system: you go out and find something to do, for which you are rewarded according to supply and demand. If not, then your money situation (usually slowly) deteriorates over time until it becomes a problem to survive. At this point, you have to ask for help which in a hustle system is only available temporarily, lengthening the time you have before problems become critical, but it won't prevent them from becoming critical. There is relatively little judgement on how you achieve demand in hustle systems. Which of course means that there's abuse, on the part of employers. "social justice" system: there is usually a "hustle" system at the top. You go out and find some demand for your services, and try to fill it. That works ? No problem. No real difference. The difference is when you don't succeed. At this point you usually HAVE to go and report your status to the government. Some government service will then formulate 2 or 3 proposals and demand you take one of them. This usually starts with job offers they collect from local companies (only the worst of the worst job offers will be offered, of course). I guarantee those proposals are all going to suck, which brings us to: of course everyone quickly realizes the trivial way to "hack" this system. Simply make sure every opportunity, every company refuses you. This is easy enough to do, and keeps the benefits coming in the short to medium term. Then of course the government has to intervene when too many people do this, or when a different party gets elected and there is a political need, which means they have to use more and more force against you to make you take one of the "opportunities". This usually starts with sudden removal of benefits, usually a lot of them at the same time (because management money saving efforts usually don't happen continuously, but in waves) as well as cessation of other help, like housing or child care. They may go further, such as demanding "you be investigated" for psychic disorders or child abuse, or ... and institute forced "treatment". First ambulant ("outpatient"). You'll quickly find out that no useful treatment is provided. They don't have any solutions, because there is a reason you got into this situation in the first place. Only taking away that reason will help (say real education, which I guarantee is not available in government assistance programs, to child care, disability help, housing nearer reasonable job opportunities, ...). And eventually they may force residential treatment on you. Also keep in mind what the motivation of these government departments is, and what it is NOT: their motivation is to expand their own organisation. To spend more on more employees for themselves. So, for example, they hire people fired from kindergarten to educate 50 year unemployed people from a mass-layoff. The effectiveness of this is somewhat limited. And then, usually very suddenly from the perspective of the needy person, they abandon you alltogether. The way that works is with one of those benefit reductions. Obviously people in this system are critically dependent on it. Otherwise you do not get to this point. So when there is a change of rules, and management goes hunting for people whose benefits can be cut, they find you, and you lose it all: income, housing, maybe even your children in a very short amount of time. Since you lost your house, they suddenly see a need to check if your address is still valid, and what do you know: you no longer live on the territory of that (piece of the) government. And then emergency sleeping facilities with dorm rooms with 8 people to a room is the only help left. I've grown up in one of those "social justice" systems. Now I live in a "hustle" system. And I must say: I vastly prefer the hustle system. There is very little force used and there are real choices.

candiodari 7y ago

The problem you're forgetting is that there is one HUGE difference between the "hustle" approach and the "social justice" approach. In both cases, the world is still the world, and the economy is still the economy. Which means, people need to work for things to happen. People are the ones that will have to do all that. That does not change. What changes is how this is achieved: "hustle" system: you go out and find something to do, for which you are rewarded according to supply and demand. If not, then your money situation (usually slowly) deteriorates over time until it becomes a problem to survive. At this point, you have to ask for help which in a hustle system is only available temporarily, lengthening the time you have before problems become critical, but it won't prevent them from becoming critical. There is relatively little judgement on how you achieve demand in hustle systems. Which of course means that there's abuse, on the part of employers. "social justice" system: there is usually a "hustle" system at the top. You go out and find some demand for your services, and try to fill it. That works ? No problem. No real difference. The difference is when you don't succeed. At this point you usually HAVE to go and report your status to the government. Some government service will then formulate 2 or 3 proposals and demand you take one of them. This usually starts with job offers they collect from local companies (only the worst of the worst job offers will be offered, of course). I guarantee those proposals are all going to suck, which brings us to: of course everyone quickly realizes the trivial way to "hack" this system. Simply make sure every opportunity, every company refuses you. This is easy enough to do, and keeps the benefits coming in the short to medium term. Then of course the government has to intervene when too many people do this, or when a different party gets elected and there is a political need, which means they have to use more and more force against you to make you take one of the "opportunities". This usually starts with sudden removal of benefits, usually a lot of them at the same time (because management money saving efforts usually don't happen continuously, but in waves) as well as cessation of other help, like housing or child care. They may go further, such as demanding "you be investigated" for psychic disorders or child abuse, or ... and institute forced "treatment". First ambulant ("outpatient"). You'll quickly find out that no useful treatment is provided. They don't have any solutions, because there is a reason you got into this situation in the first place. Only taking away that reason will help (say real education, which I guarantee is not available in government assistance programs, to child care, disability help, housing nearer reasonable job opportunities, ...). And eventually they may force residential treatment on you. Also keep in mind what the motivation of these government departments is, and what it is NOT: their motivation is to expand their own organisation. To spend more on more employees for themselves. So, for example, they hire people fired from kindergarten to educate 50 year unemployed people from a mass-layoff. The effectiveness of this is somewhat limited. And then, usually very suddenly from the perspective of the needy person, they abandon you alltogether. The way that works is with one of those benefit reductions. Obviously people in this system are critically dependent on it. Otherwise you do not get to this point. So when there is a change of rules, and management goes hunting for people whose benefits can be cut, they find you, and you lose it all: income, housing, maybe even your children in a very short amount of time. Since you lost your house, they suddenly see a need to check if your address is still valid, and what do you know: you no longer live on the territory of that (piece of the) government. And then emergency sleeping facilities with dorm rooms with 8 people to a room is the only help left. I've grown up in one of those "social justice" systems. Now I live in a "hustle" system. And I must say: I vastly prefer the hustle system. There is very little force used and there are real choices.