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I'm really worried this is the one that we don't get out of. We've basically built our entire global economy on the idea that externalities don't matter. Recen

I'm really worried this is the one that we don't get out of. We've basically built our entire global economy on the idea that externalities don't matter. Recently, I came across this (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/190808115117.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/190808115117.h...) - between 1970 and 2012 there has been an 88% decline in large vertebrates (ie fish). We already know that plastic is poisonous, our entire economy is run on fossil fuels, etc. We've got less than ten years to completely change how the entire planet operates socially or we'll just cook to death. How likely is that? It's gotten to the point where I'm walking down the street and the cognitive dissonance is just unshakeable. What are people working so hard for, accumulating so much "wealth" for, when the idea that anyone is ever going to retire is laughable? How are people doing anything that involves a time horizon of more than 5 years? The recent shooters are evil sad people, but I understand. The world is terrifying and it's driving everyone crazy. I just don't know how people are coping.

WhompingWindows 7y ago
Your comment feels very doom and gloom for me living in the Northeast USA. Where specifically do you live? If you look at the forecasted outcomes of climate change, the most likely losers are NOT in USA/Europe, which is where most of HN readers are based. India, the Middle East, parts of Africa, parts of Mexico, low-lying island nations - these are the really scary places to be based out of in the next 100+ years. I don't think rich folks in the developed nations have the most cause for alarm, sad to say. Still, there's reason for hope. Many people care very strongly about saving the planet/biosphere, new businesses and research are cropping up all the time in this space. By the time 2050 rolls around, we very well may have technical solutions to some of our pressing environmental issues that seem to be killers now. Just consider 2019 -> 2050, that's 31 years. Back in 1988, wind and solar were a dream, EVs were nonexistent outside the golf course, and very very few people were passionate about fighting climate change.
- patientplatypus 7y ago
  Except of course, with rising sea levels due to glacier melt many of the major US cities will be underwater. You mentioned the Northeast? Here's an article about how New York is going to be underwater (https://gothamist.com/2019/05/21/new_climate_report_suggests_we_migh.php https://gothamist.com/2019/05/21/new_climate_report_suggests...). Also, climate change doesn't have to hit your area specifically to be harmful. Crop failures will lead to wars and displaced people. Water shortages in India lead to angry people that want to fight over Kashmir, increased migration from climate affected areas to richer areas cause ethnic tension (from North Africa to Europe, from South America to the US). As an aside, clearly the policies of nationalists are abhorrent, but they don't occur in a vacuum, and, in the US at least, the left hasn't provided a clear path to a solution to this issue. Here's the CIA being worried about such things (https://insideclimatenews.org/news/30012019/worldwide-threat-assessment-climate-change-intelligence-agencies-national-security https://insideclimatenews.org/news/30012019/worldwide-threat...). Yes, this is very doom and gloom. The facts are gloomy and connecting the dots on our possible futures spells out, in all likelihood, doom. How can you not see this?
  - selectstatement 7y ago
    Humans are a very adaptable species and there are no guarantees that the environment should continue as it once was perpetually. The situations in theses articles are just as likely to not happen as they are to come true.
    - patientplatypus 7y ago
      The situations in theses articles are just as likely to not happen as they are to come true. Um, what? On what are you basing this likelihood on? These are scientists that study this for a living. This sounds like complete fabrication.
      - selectstatement 7y ago
        That doesn't mean that they can predict the future with high accuracy. They might have some chance slightly above random but there are way too many variables unconsidered. All it takes is one asteroid to invalidate all the predictions. Or one war. Or one biological contagion. Or one technological innovation.
- Fomite 7y ago
  "the most likely losers are NOT in USA/Europe, which is where most of HN readers are based" Indeed. We'll just get to deal with a rehash of the anti-immigrant rhetoric we're seeing now thanks to a refugee crisis our policies and consumption rates created.
  - Fjolsvith 7y ago
    Europe needs to build themselves a wall, too.
- redisman 7y ago
  Where do you think people will go from the regions that get destroyed by climate change? Or will they just disappear into thin air rather than causing the largest refugee wave we have ever seen?
  - NikkiA 7y ago
    Most americans believe they will die and reduce the surplus population, fixing any problems once and for all.
    - Fjolsvith 7y ago
      Citation needed.
faissaloo 7y ago
I'm 18, I don't think I'll be able to retire, I'm still trying to figure out how exactly to survive the collapse of civilisation.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  > I'm still trying to figure out how exactly to survive the collapse of civilisation. You're listening too much to alarmist stuff. Things may get bad. It's not likely to be the collapse of civilization. Make sure you're able to survive the continuation of civilization, since that's the much more likely scenario.
  - faissaloo 7y ago
    My dude, we have no idea how bad climate change is going to hit us, automation is going to put tons of people out of jobs, there is a loneliness crisis, the gap between rich amd poor is bigger than its ever been, western countries are more divided than ever before, people are checking out of reality, social bonds are all but nonexistent, ecosystems are collapsing on the regular, birth, gender relations are the worst they've been in centuries, fertility rates are plummeting, we're on the brink of another recession, the nazis are back, China is building the most authoritarian nation ever devised, I'm not even close to done. I highly doubt we're going to get past 2050 without the foundations of society collapsing.
    - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
      First: I am not "my dude" to you. Second: Things look ugly right now. You'd have to be blind not to see it. But the advantage of being 57 instead of 18 is that I've seen this before, and I've talked to people who've seen even more. I don't know that this looks blacker than the 1980s, when nuclear war looked like a very real possibility - not just sometime in the future, but tomorrow. I'm not sure it's blacker than the Cuban Missile Crisis. I'm not sure that it's blacker than World War II, especially for those living in Europe, Russia, or China. I'm not sure that it's blacker than the Great Depression, when it looked like society - or at least the economy - had broken permanently. Yes, it looks bad. It is bad. It's not worse than it's ever been, though. We probably will make it through this, though it will be a bumpy ride.

WhompingWindows 7y ago

Your comment feels very doom and gloom for me living in the Northeast USA. Where specifically do you live? If you look at the forecasted outcomes of climate change, the most likely losers are NOT in USA/Europe, which is where most of HN readers are based. India, the Middle East, parts of Africa, parts of Mexico, low-lying island nations - these are the really scary places to be based out of in the next 100+ years. I don't think rich folks in the developed nations have the most cause for alarm, sad to say. Still, there's reason for hope. Many people care very strongly about saving the planet/biosphere, new businesses and research are cropping up all the time in this space. By the time 2050 rolls around, we very well may have technical solutions to some of our pressing environmental issues that seem to be killers now. Just consider 2019 -> 2050, that's 31 years. Back in 1988, wind and solar were a dream, EVs were nonexistent outside the golf course, and very very few people were passionate about fighting climate change.

patientplatypus 7y ago
Except of course, with rising sea levels due to glacier melt many of the major US cities will be underwater. You mentioned the Northeast? Here's an article about how New York is going to be underwater (https://gothamist.com/2019/05/21/new_climate_report_suggests_we_migh.php https://gothamist.com/2019/05/21/new_climate_report_suggests...). Also, climate change doesn't have to hit your area specifically to be harmful. Crop failures will lead to wars and displaced people. Water shortages in India lead to angry people that want to fight over Kashmir, increased migration from climate affected areas to richer areas cause ethnic tension (from North Africa to Europe, from South America to the US). As an aside, clearly the policies of nationalists are abhorrent, but they don't occur in a vacuum, and, in the US at least, the left hasn't provided a clear path to a solution to this issue. Here's the CIA being worried about such things (https://insideclimatenews.org/news/30012019/worldwide-threat-assessment-climate-change-intelligence-agencies-national-security https://insideclimatenews.org/news/30012019/worldwide-threat...). Yes, this is very doom and gloom. The facts are gloomy and connecting the dots on our possible futures spells out, in all likelihood, doom. How can you not see this?
- selectstatement 7y ago
  Humans are a very adaptable species and there are no guarantees that the environment should continue as it once was perpetually. The situations in theses articles are just as likely to not happen as they are to come true.
  - patientplatypus 7y ago
    The situations in theses articles are just as likely to not happen as they are to come true. Um, what? On what are you basing this likelihood on? These are scientists that study this for a living. This sounds like complete fabrication.
    - selectstatement 7y ago
      That doesn't mean that they can predict the future with high accuracy. They might have some chance slightly above random but there are way too many variables unconsidered. All it takes is one asteroid to invalidate all the predictions. Or one war. Or one biological contagion. Or one technological innovation.
Fomite 7y ago
"the most likely losers are NOT in USA/Europe, which is where most of HN readers are based" Indeed. We'll just get to deal with a rehash of the anti-immigrant rhetoric we're seeing now thanks to a refugee crisis our policies and consumption rates created.
- Fjolsvith 7y ago
  Europe needs to build themselves a wall, too.
redisman 7y ago
Where do you think people will go from the regions that get destroyed by climate change? Or will they just disappear into thin air rather than causing the largest refugee wave we have ever seen?
- NikkiA 7y ago
  Most americans believe they will die and reduce the surplus population, fixing any problems once and for all.
  - Fjolsvith 7y ago
    Citation needed.

faissaloo 7y ago

I'm 18, I don't think I'll be able to retire, I'm still trying to figure out how exactly to survive the collapse of civilisation.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
> I'm still trying to figure out how exactly to survive the collapse of civilisation. You're listening too much to alarmist stuff. Things may get bad. It's not likely to be the collapse of civilization. Make sure you're able to survive the continuation of civilization, since that's the much more likely scenario.
- faissaloo 7y ago
  My dude, we have no idea how bad climate change is going to hit us, automation is going to put tons of people out of jobs, there is a loneliness crisis, the gap between rich amd poor is bigger than its ever been, western countries are more divided than ever before, people are checking out of reality, social bonds are all but nonexistent, ecosystems are collapsing on the regular, birth, gender relations are the worst they've been in centuries, fertility rates are plummeting, we're on the brink of another recession, the nazis are back, China is building the most authoritarian nation ever devised, I'm not even close to done. I highly doubt we're going to get past 2050 without the foundations of society collapsing.
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    First: I am not "my dude" to you. Second: Things look ugly right now. You'd have to be blind not to see it. But the advantage of being 57 instead of 18 is that I've seen this before, and I've talked to people who've seen even more. I don't know that this looks blacker than the 1980s, when nuclear war looked like a very real possibility - not just sometime in the future, but tomorrow. I'm not sure it's blacker than the Cuban Missile Crisis. I'm not sure that it's blacker than World War II, especially for those living in Europe, Russia, or China. I'm not sure that it's blacker than the Great Depression, when it looked like society - or at least the economy - had broken permanently. Yes, it looks bad. It is bad. It's not worse than it's ever been, though. We probably will make it through this, though it will be a bumpy ride.