7 ms·

How to Pursue a Side Hustle or Startup While Working Full Time

42 points by benryon 7y ago

adamnemecek 7y ago
It's impossible. You'll make little progress, very slowly. You'll be very tired and frustrated. If you have an idea, quit your job and do it full-time. How many hours a day do you really have after work? 3? And these are the worst hours of the day, say between 7pm-10pm.
- deadmik3 7y ago
  I learned this the hard way in college. I got accepted to a summer startup program for an idea I had (it wasn't quite an incubator but more like a think tank course, where you got a stipend to work on your startup idea). I thought I could work on my startup, meet all the requirements to stay in the program, and keep my full-time job as a developer at another company. I was able to do all 3, and thought it showed I was a real hard workin' go-getter to have a full time job and a full time startup I was working on. Until the startup program coordinators found out I was working a job along with my startup and almost kicked me out of the program. It was then (actually, years later) that I realized I wasn't doing 2 jobs full time; I was doing 2 jobs part time, and that what makes the people who can run a successful startup while working on a career exceptional is just that, they're exceptional at both. I think a lot about how much further I could have gotten with that startup if I had just quit my job and actually worked full-time on it, especially given that the program paid a stiped, instead of trying to sneak some code in whenever my boss wasn't asking for something else. So I wouldn't say impossible, but really tough for anything big enough to be its own business.
- herenorthere 7y ago
  This isn't a yes or no situation, there's a grey area in between. Just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean that this is "impossible" for everyone. You comment is loaded with so many opinions and assumptions, you do realize that people live like, separate, different, and unique lives right? and that they might have different experiences than you?
  - adamnemecek 7y ago
    On a small scale, everything is unique. On a large scale, everything is repetitive. Yes, if you have a full time job with a commute, you'll make little progress. 10 hrs a week is very little. And again, these are terrible hours. It's 3 hrs after work + weekends. It means literally not doing anything besides this. How long can you sustain this? Your main job will be occupying most of your attention anyway. On HN, and such, people call everything a side project due to fear of criticism. If you say "it's a side project", and people criticize it, you can say "it's just a side project". Statements like "everything is unique" are very obfuscatory. How am I supposed to make any decisions? Yes, certain parameters might be different but a universal truth accounts for this. Instead of posting platitudes, post a rebuttal. Post a counter-example.
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      If 7-10 PM are terrible hours for you, consider using 5-8 AM as the hours for your side project.
      - adamnemecek 7y ago
        I tried. I can't get up at 5am and be productive.
  - robenkleene 7y ago
    To me this is rather simple, if you believe both of these things to be true: 1. The business world is competitive. 2. Some people are working on their ideas full-time. Then how is it not a huge disadvantage to not be working full-time on your idea? I'm very curious how people who advocate for side projects think about this differently? With ones they hope will become successful businesses at least, other side projects, such as open source projects, make perfect sense.
    - adamnemecek 7y ago
      I agree. I think the assumption is that you'll quit your job once it starts taking off. I also think that this meme is alive because people are working on their startups and are hoping for them to take off. In some sense, they repeat what they hope is true.
- southerndrift 7y ago
  I guess this goes against the grain and threatens the hope of many hn readers but you are essentially right. For sure, some people manage to have a startup and a job, like some people get rich by playing the lottery. But this setup is like crunch time in game studios which is agreed on not being very productive. Programmers make enough money that they can put some aside to have time for a startup. Unlike in other professions, there is always another job waiting if the startup was not successful. So why risk the startup by dividing one's focus?
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    Why risk never starting anything at all because of the perceived need to do it big bang or nothing?
    - adamnemecek 7y ago
      False dichotomy. Start side projects. But there will be a point where you spend 2 days after work dealing with build issues or something. Researching some solution to a problem you don't know how to solve. Trying to read a book but like spending too long being stuck on things.
nickgrosvenor 7y ago
I have a side hustle, www.cinegrain.com which has been very beneficial for my regular job, lots of lessons learned from each that apply to the other. I would strongly recommend anyone start a side hustle instead of a video game habit, or taking up golf.
- conductr 7y ago
  In 2030, the normal entry level office job will require 4 year degree, MBA from prestigious school, and minimum of 3 side hustles relevant to the job opening. Contributors to open source software preferred. Pay? $15 per hour. Unadjusted.
lifeisstillgood 7y ago
Most commonly is working a side hustle without ensuring your employer does not have some IP or other contract mechanism to cause problems later. One suspects that an awful lot of open source contributions are in such grey areas
- malux85 7y ago
  Just don't tell them. I told my employer and all my work colleages I had a really boring hobby, Chemistry (something I am actually interested in) Then bang on about it every chance you can get. Go into elaborate detail about the most boring parts. After a few weeks people will learn to leave you alone. Make sure you always have an answer for "what are you doing tonight", "what are you doing this weekend" be super excited about it, but make sure it's really boring. Then when it's time to leave tell them you're going travelling around Europe and you have no idea what job you will do next. Launch your product, and never work the 9-5 again (it's a new type of work now) That's what I did. I know people are gonna say "Thats risky", "You could get sued" etc etc etc ... but you know what? Life is risky, and if you dont have the guts, my answer to you is that this is the least of your problems running a startup : maybe you should stay in that 9-5
  - icedchai 7y ago
    Yep. About 15 years ago I made the mistake of telling a coworker about a side hustle. He ratted me out to a VP. I had an interesting conversation the next week, but at the end of the day, nothing happened.
    - bartozone 7y ago
      Just talk to the VP before it becomes anything significant and get clearance. If you want to start something and they say no, then you know in advance and you can decide if you want to leave or not. If you start a serious side business and they find out without you having told them, then it's problematic. You signed a contract when you started. If you didn't sign anything then you are free to do as you like. But this is probably an unlikely scenario.
hobo_mark 7y ago
> <redacted>, 31, a social media specialist at Etsy, works from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. For my education, what does such a figure do eight hours a day?
- dgzl 7y ago
  Staying hip on the internet isn't easy.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  They likely spend a lot of time on customer service via Twitter/Facebook when someone @replies to Etsy with an issue.
- claudiulodro 7y ago
  It's definitely not the job for me, but there is at least a full day's work in social media management: - Responding to customers/inquiries - Promoting new features, successful user stories, etc. - Writing and scheduling social media content across multiple platforms: Instagram, FB, Twitter, and anywhere else the company has a social media presence. - Analyzing social media metrics (engagement, etc.) across post themes/times/etc. - Managing aforementioned social media automation and analysis tools. - Most social media these days has a pay-to-boost component, and needs optimal purchasing and boosting of posts based on metrics.
- ghaff 7y ago
  Especially at a company like Etsy, a lot actually goes into social media at many companies--it's not just random tweeting. There will be company accounts to manage, analytics, creation and redistribution of social media content including things like YouTube, integration with other web properties, etc. Etsy isn't a huge company but I imagine social media is relatively much more important there. A lot of companies have multiple people who do social media full-time or as significant parts of their job.
camillomiller 7y ago
This entire culture described in this article is so fucking wrong on so many levels it’s disgusting. The cultural gap between American and European work ethics has never been as wide as today. Instead of fighting for better welfare policies and a fairer system, the answer is inevitably “hustle more”. Shame on all this bullshit.
- opportune 7y ago
  I don’t think it’s that simple. The type of people this article profiles / is for are upper-middle class strivers and class climbers who want to be rich rich rich. Not people just struggling to get by (as far as I can tell) Personally their lives aren’t affected by a better welfare system and they may even be the ones benefitting from an unfair system. I try to be active in a local political organization that has the goal of more equitably rearranging society but I too am one of the fools trying to make money on the side mostly because I know the only way to get real power in this country is through wealth. And even though I want to change that, it takes someone who has already acquired wealth to be effective in doing so
  - camillomiller 7y ago
    Fair reply, I understand and respect your point. On the other hand, the narrative set by this kind celebratory pieces is toxic. You shouldn’t have to be a hustler to have more. Also I don’t think that an Etsy social media manager really fits that description you gave...
    - opportune 7y ago
      Well, I agree and disagree. I think if you are already well off and you want more, the most just way to acquire that is through working more. But you're right that people struggling to get by, support their family, put themselves through school, etc. shouldn't be forced into taking on multiple part-time jobs or "side hustles" like delivering food or flipping clothes, and the two groups of people are not doing the same thing. One is self-actualization, the other is closer to survival.

42 points by benryon 7y ago

It's impossible. You'll make little progress, very slowly. You'll be very tired and frustrated. If you have an idea, quit your job and do it full-time. How many hours a day do you really have after work? 3? And these are the worst hours of the day, say between 7pm-10pm.

deadmik3 7y ago
I learned this the hard way in college. I got accepted to a summer startup program for an idea I had (it wasn't quite an incubator but more like a think tank course, where you got a stipend to work on your startup idea). I thought I could work on my startup, meet all the requirements to stay in the program, and keep my full-time job as a developer at another company. I was able to do all 3, and thought it showed I was a real hard workin' go-getter to have a full time job and a full time startup I was working on. Until the startup program coordinators found out I was working a job along with my startup and almost kicked me out of the program. It was then (actually, years later) that I realized I wasn't doing 2 jobs full time; I was doing 2 jobs part time, and that what makes the people who can run a successful startup while working on a career exceptional is just that, they're exceptional at both. I think a lot about how much further I could have gotten with that startup if I had just quit my job and actually worked full-time on it, especially given that the program paid a stiped, instead of trying to sneak some code in whenever my boss wasn't asking for something else. So I wouldn't say impossible, but really tough for anything big enough to be its own business.
herenorthere 7y ago
This isn't a yes or no situation, there's a grey area in between. Just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean that this is "impossible" for everyone. You comment is loaded with so many opinions and assumptions, you do realize that people live like, separate, different, and unique lives right? and that they might have different experiences than you?
- adamnemecek 7y ago
  On a small scale, everything is unique. On a large scale, everything is repetitive. Yes, if you have a full time job with a commute, you'll make little progress. 10 hrs a week is very little. And again, these are terrible hours. It's 3 hrs after work + weekends. It means literally not doing anything besides this. How long can you sustain this? Your main job will be occupying most of your attention anyway. On HN, and such, people call everything a side project due to fear of criticism. If you say "it's a side project", and people criticize it, you can say "it's just a side project". Statements like "everything is unique" are very obfuscatory. How am I supposed to make any decisions? Yes, certain parameters might be different but a universal truth accounts for this. Instead of posting platitudes, post a rebuttal. Post a counter-example.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    If 7-10 PM are terrible hours for you, consider using 5-8 AM as the hours for your side project.
    - adamnemecek 7y ago
      I tried. I can't get up at 5am and be productive.
- robenkleene 7y ago
  To me this is rather simple, if you believe both of these things to be true: 1. The business world is competitive. 2. Some people are working on their ideas full-time. Then how is it not a huge disadvantage to not be working full-time on your idea? I'm very curious how people who advocate for side projects think about this differently? With ones they hope will become successful businesses at least, other side projects, such as open source projects, make perfect sense.
  - adamnemecek 7y ago
    I agree. I think the assumption is that you'll quit your job once it starts taking off. I also think that this meme is alive because people are working on their startups and are hoping for them to take off. In some sense, they repeat what they hope is true.
southerndrift 7y ago
I guess this goes against the grain and threatens the hope of many hn readers but you are essentially right. For sure, some people manage to have a startup and a job, like some people get rich by playing the lottery. But this setup is like crunch time in game studios which is agreed on not being very productive. Programmers make enough money that they can put some aside to have time for a startup. Unlike in other professions, there is always another job waiting if the startup was not successful. So why risk the startup by dividing one's focus?
- sokoloff 7y ago
  Why risk never starting anything at all because of the perceived need to do it big bang or nothing?
  - adamnemecek 7y ago
    False dichotomy. Start side projects. But there will be a point where you spend 2 days after work dealing with build issues or something. Researching some solution to a problem you don't know how to solve. Trying to read a book but like spending too long being stuck on things.

nickgrosvenor 7y ago

I have a side hustle, www.cinegrain.com which has been very beneficial for my regular job, lots of lessons learned from each that apply to the other. I would strongly recommend anyone start a side hustle instead of a video game habit, or taking up golf.

conductr 7y ago
In 2030, the normal entry level office job will require 4 year degree, MBA from prestigious school, and minimum of 3 side hustles relevant to the job opening. Contributors to open source software preferred. Pay? $15 per hour. Unadjusted.

lifeisstillgood 7y ago

Most commonly is working a side hustle without ensuring your employer does not have some IP or other contract mechanism to cause problems later. One suspects that an awful lot of open source contributions are in such grey areas

malux85 7y ago
Just don't tell them. I told my employer and all my work colleages I had a really boring hobby, Chemistry (something I am actually interested in) Then bang on about it every chance you can get. Go into elaborate detail about the most boring parts. After a few weeks people will learn to leave you alone. Make sure you always have an answer for "what are you doing tonight", "what are you doing this weekend" be super excited about it, but make sure it's really boring. Then when it's time to leave tell them you're going travelling around Europe and you have no idea what job you will do next. Launch your product, and never work the 9-5 again (it's a new type of work now) That's what I did. I know people are gonna say "Thats risky", "You could get sued" etc etc etc ... but you know what? Life is risky, and if you dont have the guts, my answer to you is that this is the least of your problems running a startup : maybe you should stay in that 9-5
- icedchai 7y ago
  Yep. About 15 years ago I made the mistake of telling a coworker about a side hustle. He ratted me out to a VP. I had an interesting conversation the next week, but at the end of the day, nothing happened.
  - bartozone 7y ago
    Just talk to the VP before it becomes anything significant and get clearance. If you want to start something and they say no, then you know in advance and you can decide if you want to leave or not. If you start a serious side business and they find out without you having told them, then it's problematic. You signed a contract when you started. If you didn't sign anything then you are free to do as you like. But this is probably an unlikely scenario.

hobo_mark 7y ago

> <redacted>, 31, a social media specialist at Etsy, works from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. For my education, what does such a figure do eight hours a day?

dgzl 7y ago
Staying hip on the internet isn't easy.
ceejayoz 7y ago
They likely spend a lot of time on customer service via Twitter/Facebook when someone @replies to Etsy with an issue.
claudiulodro 7y ago
It's definitely not the job for me, but there is at least a full day's work in social media management: - Responding to customers/inquiries - Promoting new features, successful user stories, etc. - Writing and scheduling social media content across multiple platforms: Instagram, FB, Twitter, and anywhere else the company has a social media presence. - Analyzing social media metrics (engagement, etc.) across post themes/times/etc. - Managing aforementioned social media automation and analysis tools. - Most social media these days has a pay-to-boost component, and needs optimal purchasing and boosting of posts based on metrics.
ghaff 7y ago
Especially at a company like Etsy, a lot actually goes into social media at many companies--it's not just random tweeting. There will be company accounts to manage, analytics, creation and redistribution of social media content including things like YouTube, integration with other web properties, etc. Etsy isn't a huge company but I imagine social media is relatively much more important there. A lot of companies have multiple people who do social media full-time or as significant parts of their job.

camillomiller 7y ago

This entire culture described in this article is so fucking wrong on so many levels it’s disgusting. The cultural gap between American and European work ethics has never been as wide as today. Instead of fighting for better welfare policies and a fairer system, the answer is inevitably “hustle more”. Shame on all this bullshit.

opportune 7y ago
I don’t think it’s that simple. The type of people this article profiles / is for are upper-middle class strivers and class climbers who want to be rich rich rich. Not people just struggling to get by (as far as I can tell) Personally their lives aren’t affected by a better welfare system and they may even be the ones benefitting from an unfair system. I try to be active in a local political organization that has the goal of more equitably rearranging society but I too am one of the fools trying to make money on the side mostly because I know the only way to get real power in this country is through wealth. And even though I want to change that, it takes someone who has already acquired wealth to be effective in doing so
- camillomiller 7y ago
  Fair reply, I understand and respect your point. On the other hand, the narrative set by this kind celebratory pieces is toxic. You shouldn’t have to be a hustler to have more. Also I don’t think that an Etsy social media manager really fits that description you gave...
  - opportune 7y ago
    Well, I agree and disagree. I think if you are already well off and you want more, the most just way to acquire that is through working more. But you're right that people struggling to get by, support their family, put themselves through school, etc. shouldn't be forced into taking on multiple part-time jobs or "side hustles" like delivering food or flipping clothes, and the two groups of people are not doing the same thing. One is self-actualization, the other is closer to survival.