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I tried to find the actual poll to find out what questions were being asked, but link 1 says the 39% figure is from a 2016 study, while link 2 is a 2015 study a

I tried to find the actual poll to find out what questions were being asked, but link 1 says the 39% figure is from a 2016 study, while link 2 is a 2015 study and doesn't mention 39% anywhere relating to the medical system. "Less faith in the medical system" could mean just about anything, from people not believing they have the right coverage, to people being afraid that doctors in lab coats are doing voodoo rituals behind closed doors and giving people diseases. I don't think it means what you're insinuating: that people with serious flu (or initial ebola symptoms) would avoid going to a doctor in the US when they would have a few decades ago.

ziddoap 7y ago
You are correct, my 2nd link doesn't seem to have that figure. That was my mistake in sourcing, I will remove it. I wasn't trying to insinuate anything, honestly. I was just trying to provide a source that trust in healthcare is falling to the person who said "Goodness. Citations needed" to the person who said trust in healthcare is falling.
- harshreality 7y ago
  Al was responding to someone who was insinuating that distrust of medicine (doctors, generally) was the result of aggressive law enforcement. The strong implication was we should do something about the reluctance of people to seek medical care because of their immigration status or outstanding warrants. That means reducing enforcement of various laws. That's what Al was responding to. The possible variations are: 1. Stop enforcing immigration laws and checking immigration status except in very narrow cases. 2. Stop trying to apprehend people with open warrants. 3. Decriminalize some stuff that's criminal so that fewer people have warrants. Maybe I've got blinders on, but I think hardly anyone agrees with option 2 in general. And I think almost everyone, other than "Get off my lawn" suburbanites, agrees with option 3. Too much minor shit is illegal. But I also think those are minor compared to the first issue. That leaves the issue of illegal immigrants and their reluctance to have any contact with authorities, including medical services, which is why Al went on tilt. Unless you either refuse to enforce immigration laws, or make them officially legal immigrants, both of which are equivalent to an open borders policy, they are going to remain fearful of seeking medical treatment and the problem remains.
  - ziddoap 7y ago
    >distrust of medicine (doctors, generally) was the result of aggressive law enforcement. Perhaps I am reading it wrong, but the quote is: >[...] people didn’t distrust medical authorities like they do now [...], and didn’t fear [...]coming into contact with government agencies [...]. Which says "AND didn't fear" not "because of fear". I can't definitively say what the parent meant to post, but the way I read it (which could be wrong, too) is that they are saying there are two reasons we are not as equipped to deal with an outbreak like we did with polio/smallpox: One reason is because of erosion of trust in healthcare. The other (separate) reason is because of the fear of police/immigration officials.
    - harshreality 7y ago
      And you cited something claiming trust in the medical system was 80% in 1973 and dropped to 39% in 2016, but I couldn't and you couldn't find the actual source of that 39% figure to find out what poll question(s) it was the result of. Without being able to see them, I suspect that the poll questions were different or were so vague that respondents' interpretations changed dramatically over 43 years. 61% might not trust the healthcare system in some sense; maybe they don't trust medical research studies, maybe they don't trust doctors to prescribe the lowest-cost effective treatment, maybe they don't trust that they can afford medical care, maybe they think the whole medical industry is conspiring to rip them off (approximately true). But I guarantee you if 100 people break their arms you'll see more than 39 of them in the ER. Same if they have the flu and the symptoms turn severe. Almost all of them will trust primary and ER care just fine, unless there are other considerations, and immigration status and fear of discovery is the most common consideration by far. One hears it constantly in immigration pieces on media like NPR.

ziddoap 7y ago

You are correct, my 2nd link doesn't seem to have that figure. That was my mistake in sourcing, I will remove it. I wasn't trying to insinuate anything, honestly. I was just trying to provide a source that trust in healthcare is falling to the person who said "Goodness. Citations needed" to the person who said trust in healthcare is falling.

harshreality 7y ago
Al was responding to someone who was insinuating that distrust of medicine (doctors, generally) was the result of aggressive law enforcement. The strong implication was we should do something about the reluctance of people to seek medical care because of their immigration status or outstanding warrants. That means reducing enforcement of various laws. That's what Al was responding to. The possible variations are: 1. Stop enforcing immigration laws and checking immigration status except in very narrow cases. 2. Stop trying to apprehend people with open warrants. 3. Decriminalize some stuff that's criminal so that fewer people have warrants. Maybe I've got blinders on, but I think hardly anyone agrees with option 2 in general. And I think almost everyone, other than "Get off my lawn" suburbanites, agrees with option 3. Too much minor shit is illegal. But I also think those are minor compared to the first issue. That leaves the issue of illegal immigrants and their reluctance to have any contact with authorities, including medical services, which is why Al went on tilt. Unless you either refuse to enforce immigration laws, or make them officially legal immigrants, both of which are equivalent to an open borders policy, they are going to remain fearful of seeking medical treatment and the problem remains.
- ziddoap 7y ago
  >distrust of medicine (doctors, generally) was the result of aggressive law enforcement. Perhaps I am reading it wrong, but the quote is: >[...] people didn’t distrust medical authorities like they do now [...], and didn’t fear [...]coming into contact with government agencies [...]. Which says "AND didn't fear" not "because of fear". I can't definitively say what the parent meant to post, but the way I read it (which could be wrong, too) is that they are saying there are two reasons we are not as equipped to deal with an outbreak like we did with polio/smallpox: One reason is because of erosion of trust in healthcare. The other (separate) reason is because of the fear of police/immigration officials.
  - harshreality 7y ago
    And you cited something claiming trust in the medical system was 80% in 1973 and dropped to 39% in 2016, but I couldn't and you couldn't find the actual source of that 39% figure to find out what poll question(s) it was the result of. Without being able to see them, I suspect that the poll questions were different or were so vague that respondents' interpretations changed dramatically over 43 years. 61% might not trust the healthcare system in some sense; maybe they don't trust medical research studies, maybe they don't trust doctors to prescribe the lowest-cost effective treatment, maybe they don't trust that they can afford medical care, maybe they think the whole medical industry is conspiring to rip them off (approximately true). But I guarantee you if 100 people break their arms you'll see more than 39 of them in the ER. Same if they have the flu and the symptoms turn severe. Almost all of them will trust primary and ER care just fine, unless there are other considerations, and immigration status and fear of discovery is the most common consideration by far. One hears it constantly in immigration pieces on media like NPR.