So what killed these people that weren't in gulags? Some of them were killed by the secret police etc, but the absolute majority of victims of communism and soc

So what killed these people that weren't in gulags? Some of them were killed by the secret police etc, but the absolute majority of victims of communism and socialism were not killed, they died - because of unavailable food, medicine, healthcare services, housing and so on. No one is talking about people Stalin killed and you're right it has no logic. The thing that got these people to die was market manipulation, which is why I posted it in a discussion about market manipulation. Not everyone has to be immediately thinking about Stalin when making an argument about socialism leading to deaths. There are plenty of options. See Venezuela for instance.