3 ms·

This sentiment drifts dangerously close to a conspiracy theory. The existence of the vaccine industry demonstrates there is a market for a cure. As do immunoth

This sentiment drifts dangerously close to a conspiracy theory. The existence of the vaccine industry demonstrates there is a market for a cure. As do immunotherapies. Where cures are possible, they are commercialized.

wayneftw 7y ago
So? Corporations, governments and other people conspire to rip off customers all the time. Off the top of my head: Planned obsolescence is a thing. Whole companies of people in India calling your house trying to trick you into buying computer-virus protection is a thing. Entire nations conspiring to steal industry secrets from other countries is a thing. Operation Mockingbird was/is a thing. General corruption is a thing and people working together when they have common goals is a thing. So what's your point in saying that something sounds like a "conspiracy theory" when there are clearly many, many people conspiring to do wrong all the time? And the existence of the vaccine industry does not prove that cures are always commercialized when possible.
- pygy_ 7y ago
  > And the existence of the vaccine industry does not prove that cures are always commercialized when possible. For once, the health industry works on planning its own obsolescence (as it should, generally), and a major conspiracy theory pops up countering the trend... Another domain you didn't mention: imagine the crisis in the food and distribution industry if everyone started having a healthy diet overnight... While those sectors may not have started the obesity epidemics deliberately, they now rely on its expansion for growth.
knd775 7y ago
Selling a vaccine for a disease to virtually every person alive can make more money than selling drugs to treat a disease to the few people that actually get that disease.
- throwaway5752 7y ago
  No it can't. There is crap money in vaccines and they are hard to make. You can literally just open up Glaxo, Sanofi, et al annual reports and confirm this.
  - refurb 7y ago
    Pfizer’s Best-Selling Drug Is Actually a Vaccine https://fortune.com/2019/02/05/pfizer-pneumonia-vaccine-treatment-shot-prevnar-13/ https://fortune.com/2019/02/05/pfizer-pneumonia-vaccine-trea...
    - throwaway5752 7y ago
      Software developers make $3M per year: https://www.infoworld.com/article/3304439/man-or-myth-the-3-million-google-engineer.html https://www.infoworld.com/article/3304439/man-or-myth-the-3-... To not be glib: first, Prevnar is an outlier (https://www.fiercepharma.com/special-report/5-prevnar-13 https://www.fiercepharma.com/special-report/5-prevnar-13) and lack of profitability in basic vaccines is a public health problem in terms of investment in R&D and producer concentration https://magazine.jhsph.edu/2002/fall/vaccines.html https://magazine.jhsph.edu/2002/fall/vaccines.html (dated link but still accurate). They aren't like normal pharma in terms of their margins and R&D profile. You develops something for macular degeneration and it's a one off that can be depreciated. Influenza and some others require international monitoring, forecasting, sample collection and new work every season. It's closer to biologics or genetic therapies in terms of cost of revenue, but priced nowhere near that because of the economies of scale and, frankly, social responsibility of the producers.
      - refurb 7y ago
        It's definitely a different market than drugs with it's own set of challenges, but I'd say the lack of profitability has more to do with the disease state the vaccine is for versus the fact it's a vaccine. And the global vaccine market is work $32B right now, so there is obviously a lot of profit being made.[1] [1]https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vaccine-market-size-expected-to-surpass-77-billion-at-103-cagr-by-2024--million-insights-681224391.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vaccine-market-size...
enraged_camel 7y ago
>>The existence of the vaccine industry demonstrates there is a market for a cure You are confused about terminology. Vaccines don’t cure. They are preventative.
throwaway5752 7y ago
No, it flat out is a conspiracy theory and it's false. It's embarrassing that it's here and that you're downvoted.
- tripzilch 7y ago
  Honestly can you explain to me, as an outsider, why this particular theory is a conspiracy and "embarrassing" to even consider, compared to all the other ridiculous shit going around healthcare in the US? It wouldn't surprise me one tiny bit, given the US' track record with letting corporations do whatever the hell they want to, to people. I'm not saying it's true, but you can't simply dismiss a theory about the corporate world screwing over the American people with a simple "no way that's too ridiculous to ever happen", any more. Especially if it's directly in line with what the free market would demand, as well as it not happening being contingent on a corporation being "nice" from the good of its "heart". Please tell me instead that it's false because there is regulation in place, or there is some strong market force making them take the other route. Because your implied argument would be "that is inhumane and corporations wouldn't do that"--now THAT is embarrassing.

wayneftw 7y ago

So? Corporations, governments and other people conspire to rip off customers all the time. Off the top of my head: Planned obsolescence is a thing. Whole companies of people in India calling your house trying to trick you into buying computer-virus protection is a thing. Entire nations conspiring to steal industry secrets from other countries is a thing. Operation Mockingbird was/is a thing. General corruption is a thing and people working together when they have common goals is a thing. So what's your point in saying that something sounds like a "conspiracy theory" when there are clearly many, many people conspiring to do wrong all the time? And the existence of the vaccine industry does not prove that cures are always commercialized when possible.

pygy_ 7y ago
> And the existence of the vaccine industry does not prove that cures are always commercialized when possible. For once, the health industry works on planning its own obsolescence (as it should, generally), and a major conspiracy theory pops up countering the trend... Another domain you didn't mention: imagine the crisis in the food and distribution industry if everyone started having a healthy diet overnight... While those sectors may not have started the obesity epidemics deliberately, they now rely on its expansion for growth.

knd775 7y ago

Selling a vaccine for a disease to virtually every person alive can make more money than selling drugs to treat a disease to the few people that actually get that disease.

throwaway5752 7y ago
No it can't. There is crap money in vaccines and they are hard to make. You can literally just open up Glaxo, Sanofi, et al annual reports and confirm this.
- refurb 7y ago
  Pfizer’s Best-Selling Drug Is Actually a Vaccine https://fortune.com/2019/02/05/pfizer-pneumonia-vaccine-treatment-shot-prevnar-13/ https://fortune.com/2019/02/05/pfizer-pneumonia-vaccine-trea...
  - throwaway5752 7y ago
    Software developers make $3M per year: https://www.infoworld.com/article/3304439/man-or-myth-the-3-million-google-engineer.html https://www.infoworld.com/article/3304439/man-or-myth-the-3-... To not be glib: first, Prevnar is an outlier (https://www.fiercepharma.com/special-report/5-prevnar-13 https://www.fiercepharma.com/special-report/5-prevnar-13) and lack of profitability in basic vaccines is a public health problem in terms of investment in R&D and producer concentration https://magazine.jhsph.edu/2002/fall/vaccines.html https://magazine.jhsph.edu/2002/fall/vaccines.html (dated link but still accurate). They aren't like normal pharma in terms of their margins and R&D profile. You develops something for macular degeneration and it's a one off that can be depreciated. Influenza and some others require international monitoring, forecasting, sample collection and new work every season. It's closer to biologics or genetic therapies in terms of cost of revenue, but priced nowhere near that because of the economies of scale and, frankly, social responsibility of the producers.
    - refurb 7y ago
      It's definitely a different market than drugs with it's own set of challenges, but I'd say the lack of profitability has more to do with the disease state the vaccine is for versus the fact it's a vaccine. And the global vaccine market is work $32B right now, so there is obviously a lot of profit being made.[1] [1]https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vaccine-market-size-expected-to-surpass-77-billion-at-103-cagr-by-2024--million-insights-681224391.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vaccine-market-size...

enraged_camel 7y ago

>>The existence of the vaccine industry demonstrates there is a market for a cure You are confused about terminology. Vaccines don’t cure. They are preventative.

throwaway5752 7y ago

No, it flat out is a conspiracy theory and it's false. It's embarrassing that it's here and that you're downvoted.

tripzilch 7y ago
Honestly can you explain to me, as an outsider, why this particular theory is a conspiracy and "embarrassing" to even consider, compared to all the other ridiculous shit going around healthcare in the US? It wouldn't surprise me one tiny bit, given the US' track record with letting corporations do whatever the hell they want to, to people. I'm not saying it's true, but you can't simply dismiss a theory about the corporate world screwing over the American people with a simple "no way that's too ridiculous to ever happen", any more. Especially if it's directly in line with what the free market would demand, as well as it not happening being contingent on a corporation being "nice" from the good of its "heart". Please tell me instead that it's false because there is regulation in place, or there is some strong market force making them take the other route. Because your implied argument would be "that is inhumane and corporations wouldn't do that"--now THAT is embarrassing.