3 ms·

USA Government doesn't do terrible things to USA citizens, but does terrible things to Non-USA countries and its citizens (most of the rest of the world). Chin

by pavs 7y ago

USA Government doesn't do terrible things to USA citizens, but does terrible things to Non-USA countries and its citizens (most of the rest of the world). Chinese Government does terrible things to its own people, but doesn't do terrible things to the rest of the world. Pick your poison.

SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
In the USA (and in liberal democracies) people can learn about these things, speak openly about them, possibly get mad about them, and hold the government accountable. That's the crucial difference. I'm pretty sure I can hear people laughing, as they are reading that. However, it really is true.
- majia 7y ago
  Why is Guantanamo camp still open? Can Snowden speak openly about NSA hacking? In China there are some checks and balances, but they are just ineffective and often ignored too. In the USA there are stronger due processes, but there are also more subtle ways to abuse them. There is a difference, but it’s not really as material as it sounds.
- pavs 7y ago
  > possibly get mad about them, and hold the government accountable When was the last time it happened, if ever?
  - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
    Imagine what the US government might be doing abroad today, if there had been no push back from its citizens on the Iraq war? Or Vietnam? Or take a look at the spotlight in the US being shined on immigration and the treatment of asylum seekers, today. Imagine a version of events where there is no such spotlight. That fight is still ongoing, and the outcome is uncertain... but would their situation be better or worse? The US is also engaged in many, many humanitarian efforts all around the world - that is in part because these efforts are supported by the people.
    - pavs 7y ago
      You literally did not answer my question. Your government is not now or has ever been accountable to any atrocities it has caused since the beginning of its existence. Regardless of how much angst you have shown and the protests you have done. Nothing cam out of it, ever. China has never in the history of its existence, bombed the shit out of other countries, killing millions in the guise of freedom. Overthrew legitimately elected government, and supplied weapons to create conflict. Never.
      - nailer 7y ago
        Well China itself does not have a legitimately elected government, so there's that. They're trying to revoke the HK system they promised before the handover in 1997 as we speak.

by pavs 7y ago

SmirkingRevenge 7y ago

In the USA (and in liberal democracies) people can learn about these things, speak openly about them, possibly get mad about them, and hold the government accountable. That's the crucial difference. I'm pretty sure I can hear people laughing, as they are reading that. However, it really is true.

majia 7y ago
Why is Guantanamo camp still open? Can Snowden speak openly about NSA hacking? In China there are some checks and balances, but they are just ineffective and often ignored too. In the USA there are stronger due processes, but there are also more subtle ways to abuse them. There is a difference, but it’s not really as material as it sounds.
pavs 7y ago
> possibly get mad about them, and hold the government accountable When was the last time it happened, if ever?
- SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
  Imagine what the US government might be doing abroad today, if there had been no push back from its citizens on the Iraq war? Or Vietnam? Or take a look at the spotlight in the US being shined on immigration and the treatment of asylum seekers, today. Imagine a version of events where there is no such spotlight. That fight is still ongoing, and the outcome is uncertain... but would their situation be better or worse? The US is also engaged in many, many humanitarian efforts all around the world - that is in part because these efforts are supported by the people.
  - pavs 7y ago
    You literally did not answer my question. Your government is not now or has ever been accountable to any atrocities it has caused since the beginning of its existence. Regardless of how much angst you have shown and the protests you have done. Nothing cam out of it, ever. China has never in the history of its existence, bombed the shit out of other countries, killing millions in the guise of freedom. Overthrew legitimately elected government, and supplied weapons to create conflict. Never.
    - nailer 7y ago
      Well China itself does not have a legitimately elected government, so there's that. They're trying to revoke the HK system they promised before the handover in 1997 as we speak.