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It’s All Greek to You and Me, So What Is It to the Greeks?
- kyriakos 7y agoI can confirm as a native Greek speaker we use Chinese for the same expression. Based on the linked scale it is more accurate to say Japanese instead.
- paganel 7y agoAm Romanian, we also use Chinese for the same expression. That is most of the times, we also use Turkish, as in: “What it is so hard to understand? Am I speaking Turkish to you?”
- pibi 7y agoItalian here, we use Arab for pretty the same sentence. That's because we are still studying Greek and Latin on some public school.
- knocte 7y agoSpanish here, we use Chinese.
- smcl 7y agoYou’re gonna like this - in Czech it’s “je to pro mě španělské vesnice” meaning “it’s a Spanish village to me”
- youeseh 7y agoAm American. We use alien.
- klez 7y agoI wouldn't say that a language studied by a minority of students (those in liceo classico) is the reason we use "Arab" as the incomprehensible language shorthand. Especially when you consider that the Greek studied in liceo is not the Greek spoken in Greece today.
- coldtea 7y ago>I wouldn't say that a language studied by a minority of students (those in liceo classico) is the reason we use "Arab" as the incomprehensible language shorthand. A minority today, but one would assume (as in the case in e.g. German and France) more (of students) in the past 50-100-200 years when the phrase was established.
- posterboy 7y agoThdre's the connotation of respect if not awe for the language, whereas this idiom is pejorative. The implication of the idiom is not "what, am I talking too educated?", quite the opposite (the connotation is not "stupid" either, just "way foreign")
- carlob 7y agoCame here to say this, but I'm just going to correct you: Arabic is the language, Arab the people. :)
- pibi 7y agoAh ah, good call
- jaclaz 7y agoYes and no (meaning that we strangely use both Arabic and Turkish in different situations). If you don't understand, you would say "Mi sembra arabo" (it seems arabic to me) but if you are talking and the other part doesn't understand it is more common "E che parlo, turco?" (what am I speaking, turkish?) than "E che parlo, arabo?" (what am I speaking, arabic?) at least in my experience. Of course historically "turk" and "arab" were synonyms due to the fall of of Constantinople and the "contacts" with the Ottoman Empire. And now, risking to quote myself, evidence of the sentence (by a greek) "it's English to me": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20484479#20485258 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20484479#20485258
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- pmontra 7y agoI never heard this Turkish expression, only the Arabic one. I always lived in the Milan area. Where is it used? "E che" sounds central Italy.
- jaclaz 7y agoSure, the "E che" form is tuscany and central Italy (as often happens considered archaic by someone), the "parlo turco" is italian alright: http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/ricerca/Parlare-turco/ http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/ricerca/Parlare-turco/ A more "neutral" Italian would be "Parlo forse turco?". Curiously, it is a sentence used in literature by Andrea Camilleri which should mean that the form is also in use in Sicily. JFYI ;-) Mario Vigorone [1980]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yANFI1bs9c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yANFI1bs9c
- pibi 7y agoAlso the "parlo arabo?" is listed on treccani: http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/arabo http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/arabo BTW, I agree with the other comment that this is more common in the north.
- Svip 7y agoIn Danish, we say Volapük (well volapyk in Danish). So nice of us to give an artificial language some exposure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volap%C3%BCk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volap%C3%BCk
- 6thaccount2 7y agoHaha...the less successful forerunner to Esperanto (which I've been having a blast with on Duolingo).
- jobigoud 7y agoIn French we also use Chinese for the same expression. When someone makes mistakes in English we say they speak English like a Spanish cow.
- artsyca 7y agoYou beat me to it μεγάλε (big guy), first word out of my mouth was κινέζικα (Chinese) -- in fact we use the term 'Κινέζος' (Chinese) as somewhat of an unknown unknown so to speak -- it's the same with the origin of the word for turkey (the bird) every culture seems to have a different locale in mind (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_(bird)#History_and_naming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_(bird)#History_and_nami...) As for learning Japanese, believe me, it's nothing compared to Greek -- there are not as many tenses, nor genders, nor verb conjugations I'd suggest it's very similar to Hebrew which itself is rather similar to Greek in many ways
- coldtea 7y agoPhonetically (for Europeans) and from a grammar/alphabet/etc standpoint Japanese are easier than Chinese.
- abbaselmas 7y agoTurkish here, we use French or Chinese
- anticensor 7y agoAnother Turkish expression is, "Anladıysam Arap olayım" ( "Make me Arab if I understand"), again, Arabic to me, but expressed in reverse.
- derekp7 7y agoI thought the expression derived from the use of Greek alphabet characters in advanced math. With complex formulas looking like a bunch of Greek writing, this idiom fits perfectly.
- avip 7y agoIn French Hebrew is used (c’est de l'hébreu)
- Majestic121 7y agoIt might depend on the region, to me Chinese feels more natural. "c'est du chinois"
- ocschwar 7y agoIn Hebrew its Chinese.
- sersi 7y agoSide-note but I rather disagree with placing Mandarin and Cantonese on the same level. Cantonese is definitely quite a bit harder than Mandarin... As for Japanese being harder than Mandarin and Cantonese, I think it's true if one considers complete mastery of the language but I would say that Japanese is easier to master orally for day to day life than either Mandarin or Cantonese.
- pmontra 7y agoA Japanese friend told me, Chinese is as easy as English. But characters are easy for him. For us Chinese is hard to speak because of the tones. The grammar seems very simple, simpler than any European language. Japanese has no tones so it's easier to speak. Reading and writing, both are a mnemonic nightmare. I remember European kids don't like multiplication tables, lol.
- sdoering 7y agoGerman here. We use Chinese, Spanish and train station. As in: Am I talking Chinese to you? And: That seems Spanish to me. Meaning"that doesn't seems to be right. And if I am not able to grasp something I would say: I only understand train station.
- lucb1e 7y agoDutch: we use Chinese and Spanish to me as well, but it doesn't mean that something doesn't seem quite right. It typically means that you don't understand something. Looking in a dictionary, it is mentioned for Chinese, but not for Spanish, so maybe it's because I grew up close to the German border that the local dialect uses Spanish and thereby the people might also say Spanish in normal Dutch. For the train station, we don't have something that means the same that I can think of right now, but a similar one is "my name is Haas". You can say it when you suspect someone just pretends not to know anything about it, but about yourself it can be used either way. Seems to be a purely Dutch thing, I looked up the Wikipedia and discovered that it does not have anything to do with the animal "haas" (hare). Somewhat unsurprisingly, it comes from a story about a German: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mijn_naam_is_haas https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mijn_naam_is_haas Paraphrased in English: The saying probably stems from an event in 1855, where a German student wanted to flee to France. To cross the border, he needed an identity card, which he got from a classmate, Victor von Hase. Von Hase then claimed he lost his ID, but it was later found in France, where the murderer had lost it. The real Von Hase had to appear in court and that is where he spoke the words millions would come to speak after him: "Mein Name ist Hase [...] ich weiß von nichts." (My name is "hare", I don't know anything about this.)
- hnnmzh 7y agoThis article missed the most interesting part. In Chinese we say it's "book from heaven"("天书"), for incomprehensible writings. That's the end of the this English...->Geek->Chinese->heaven sequence For speakings, yes it's "bird language" ("鸟语"), but the "bird" here is used as a euphemism for male genital. BTW Chinese is an analytic language, so the grammar is actually very easy. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytic_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytic_language
- Izkata 7y agoAnd to step sideways and combine the two, ever hear of the Language of the Birds? > In mythology, medieval literature and occultism, the language of the birds is postulated as a mystical, perfect divine language, green language, Adamic language, Enochian, angelic language or a mythical or magical language used by birds to communicate with the initiated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_the_birds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_the_birds
- StavrosK 7y agoYes but they speak Hebrew in heaven, so the chain continues. EDIT: Looks like Hebrew speakers use Chinese, so we're in a loop.
- scottlamb 7y agohttps://bigthink.com/strange-maps/362-greek-to-me-mapping-mutual-incomprehension https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/362-greek-to-me-mapping-mu... has a DAG that includes Chinese -> Heavenly Script. I read that article a while ago, and until a moment ago assumed this discussion was about it. "Atlas Obscura" and "Strange Maps" are similar enough that I got them mixed up.
- andrewshadura 7y agoIn Slovak, they say ‘Spanish village’ („španielska dedina“) for something beyond one's understanding.
- dmichulke 7y agoIn German: "Das sind für mich böhmische Dörfer" -> Bohemian (~Czech) villages. But I only ever heard this one in Saxony, which borders the Czech Republic.
- michlsemn 7y agoIn Lebanese Arabic, the expression is: "Am I speaking Karshuni [1]?" Chinese, Turkish, and Kurdish are also used. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garshuni https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garshuni
- bebe3000 7y agoHungarian: It's "full chinese" for me
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- dfawcus 7y agoWell growing up in England, that isn't what what we used. We would say that something was "Double Dutch", not that it was "Greek to me".
- ggm 7y agoGiven how Dutch and Frisian and German relate to english, puzzling that double Dutch means incomprehensible,since for any sailor on the north sea coast and many Scots Dutch was a trading and neighbouring economy. Pantiles on roofs in Scotland came over as ballast trading sea coal to the Netherlands.
- dfawcus 7y agoI also found this: https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/double-dutch.html https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/double-dutch.html Which seems to suggest that "Double Dutch" (and "High Dutch") actually refer to the German language.
- freetime2 7y agoThis reminds me of a lighthearted paper my former CS professor wrote back in 1978, where he looks for equivalents of “it was Greek to me” and uses them to created a directed graph between languages to determine which is the hardest: https://people.cs.umass.edu/~rsnbrg/hardest.pdf https://people.cs.umass.edu/~rsnbrg/hardest.pdf Spoiler alert: it’s Chinese.
- dfawcus 7y agoWhich mentions "High Dutch" and "Double Dutch" being used in Britain. The latter being what I experienced.
- lowdose 7y agoI immediately see Noam Chomsky in the text. Could you give me a recommendation on which book to start reading from him? He published so many and a few got revised in 2015 so it's pretty hard to decide what is a good read.
- dotancohen 7y agoIn Hebrew we also say "It's Chinese" when we don't understand something. Interestingly enough, I took the family to Greece just last month and explained to the children that in English, it is said that something sounds Greek if it cannot be understood. My oldest was wise enough to ask why, if Greek is the root of so many English words. I still don't have an answer for her!
- qwhelan 7y agoJust a guess, but the Catholic Church relied on a Latin translation of the Bible. Accordingly, schools taught Latin as you needed it to understand the Bible and the Mass. Those schools also taught Ancient Greek for advanced students to be able to read philosophy and portions of the Bible. This was useful if you wanted to be a priest, but otherwise it was just a pointlessly hard course for most students.
- asveikau 7y ago
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- maneesh 7y agoHere's a directed graph showing all of the language's versions of the idiom. http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/graph2.png http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/graph2.png from https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1024 https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1024
- ColinWright 7y agoUsing neato instead of dot to layout the graph is nice. I'll do that later if I get time, but I'm not in a position to do it just now. Edit: Here: https://www.solipsys.co.uk/images/DifficultyDiGraph.png https://www.solipsys.co.uk/images/DifficultyDiGraph.png
- knocte 7y agoThe arrow from Spanish to Greek is wrong. Funnily enough, we only use "Greek" in slang as a way to refer to anal sex.
- ricudis 7y agoΌλο το Ελληναριό του HN εδώ μαζεύτηκε :P Greeks use Chinese as the canonical example of an incomprehensible language. What's interesting is that although the "It's Greek to me" colloquialism mostly refers to the fact that the Greek alphabet seems incomprehensible to the (non-classical-humanities-educated) reader, Greek has actually a very complex grammar: Everything is conjugated, everything has genders, and you have to remember the correct form of every noun, preposition, article, pronoun, etc. In comparison, Chinese grammars are amazingly simple. Most Greeks don't take notice of this fact until they see somebody struggling to learn Greek as a foreign language.
- mpodlasin 7y agoI am a polish native speaker and only after I have met my french-speaking girlfriend, I realized how insanelly difficult my language is, for all the reasons you have mentioned.
- polytronic 7y agoΠράγματι όλοι εδώ! Not to mention the fact that ancient Greek seems like a foreign language to modern Greek speakers. Interestingly ancient Greek is more compact and comprehensive (ie uses fewer words compared to modern) as it uses a richer grammar (tenses, voices, etc)
- StavrosK 7y agoΆμα δω ελληνικά μπαίνω. It's not as difficult as you'd expect, because word genders are derived from the suffix, with very few exceptions (e.g. η ψήφος). Compare with German, where there's no relation between the word and the gender (you just have to memorize all of them) and they still have the dative. This makes German grammar a superset (and strictly more complex) than Greek grammar.
- inawarminister 7y agoJakartan (Indonesian) here, we use Hongkong (Cantonese) amusingly.
- necovek 7y agoWhile it's not an equivalent phrase, many a Slavic language calls Germans "mutes" (нем/nem — mute, Germans: Немци/Nemci). "Slav/slov" comes from a "word", and then you've got these other folks nearby who can't really speak :-)
- rufb 7y agoFunnily enough, the word "barbarian" for uncivilized people comes all the way from Ancient Greek slang, proverbially meaning "people who speak in these 'bar bar bar' noises".[0] It's all bar bar bar to me. :) [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarian
- StavrosK 7y ago"Barbarian" meant "foreigner", not "uncivilized". Additional "fun" fact: in modern Greek, the onomatopoeia for "babbling" is "burbur".
- cesarb 7y agoWikipedia article, with more examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_to_me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_to_me
- BerislavLopac 7y agoIn many Slavic languages, the word for Germans literally translates as "the mutes".
- chris_st 7y agoThe phrase "It's greek to me!" came up at work once, so we asked our co-worker, who was of Greek descent, what Greek people said. She said they use the phrase, "You're preaching a Turkish sermon"!
- StavrosK 7y agoGreek here, I've never heard this ever.
- beeschlenker 7y agoThis won't be greek to anybody: Obama rapes \& kills 2 boys. DeBlasio 5, Buttgieg 5, Cuomo 4, Murray 3, Dorsey 3, Thiel 3. Trump $4 billion to cover. Pelosi $3 billion, Harris $1 billion, Schumer $2 billion, to help bring the boys over the border. See pages 18-23, 8, 11, 12, 35, 45, 61, 62 Having trouble getting traction. Getting censored/banned. Billions in bribes paid to Trump, Pelosi, Schumer, Harris to enable a Soros funded child raping ring to operate in the USA. Please listen to the links below. Turn up the volume and put headphones on. You will hear these people, and many other high profile people, incriminate themselves in unbelievable fashion. Full 74 page document [update 10Aug] filled with red handed evidence like this at the bottom. Go to pages 18-23 of this document and you will hear Dorsey and Thiel raping children. You will hear their screams. They both rape and kill three. Also at the "rape party" of note: Bill DeBlasio, Andrew Cuomo, Bill Murray, Peter Buttgieg, George Soros, Barack Obama. Please copy and paste this post and repost it. I keep getting censored by these people. Peter Thiel and Jack Dorsey raping and killing three boys each. Turn the volume all the way up and put head phones on. https://s3.wasabisys.com/conv1/Overnight_14-17Jan/15JanCh3_100-200.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mzZrjobxhNIEf38M3xk-IeA5SeF4aUtB/view?usp=sharing Obama admits to raping and killing boys he{re, with commentary from Peter Thiel, George Soros, Matt Porter: https://s3.wasabisys.com/out2/Out2/15JanCh3_0545.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LCDoc1kT7cfSeKQ1vniP_sx32_bRsHau/view?usp=sharing Trump demands $4 billion to "take a blind eye" at 1015+ (link missing from report, unsure how). Here's pieces of dialogue: 1015 The President requests four billion and henry Porter agrees to it. Some dialogue below. 1017 Donald Trump: Why don't you think about it. 1017 Henry Porter: I don't need to think about it. I'm ready for you to find out what we're really about. 1017 Gigi Hadid: I don't think it's a good idea Henry. 1017 Henry Porter: ...no shit. Jelena just stop talking about it. 1018 Gigi Hadid: About what? 1018 Henry Porter: The child raping. 1018 Donald Trump: What the fuck are you talking about? 1018 Gigi Hadid: Mr. President we are child rapists. 1018 Donald Trump: You cannot be serious. 1018 Donald Trump: You're gonna need $4 billion for me to take a blind eye. 1019 ?: People are laughing because they think four billion is too much. I think it's not a problem when you have $35 billion. 1022 Donald Trump: You better have that $4 billion or you can kiss this shit goodbye. https://s3.wasabisys.com/conv2/3Jan/3JanCh3_900-1100.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Grdr8xF2psKNsuYlEnl9dIRV-77YG0Vr/view?usp=sharing Trump wants $138 million to ensure smooth outcome for false judgment for a court case: https://s3.wasabisys.com/conv1/10JanCh3/10JanCh3_951-1033.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iSeGHDToFRoRdIht50Wii0i30mlw9INp/view?usp=sharing Obama explains the Illuminati with Jack Dorsey: https://s3.wasabisys.com/conv1/Overnight_14-17Jan/15JanCh3_200-347.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ok1-9IvANULzKBOwADFgaiYCFi6yszfj/view?usp=sharing At 230 a conversation is occurring on the embedded Porter camera system with Jack Dorsey, Peter Thiel, Barack Obama, Bill M^urray, and the Porter's. Jack Dorsey provides a statement defining who their group is: "The Illum%inati is an underground organization of child rapists and homosexuals." Matthew Porter: "We have to thin the herd, so Barack is going to explain a few things." At 232 Barack Obama says the following: "You people have to realize we are child rapi'sts. The Illuminati are child rapists. As soon as you figure that out, you can decide what to do. Everybody is freaking out about what just happened [child raping event still going on]. This is who ^we are." Full 74 page document [updated 10Aug]: https://s3.wasabisys.com/aviewmefirst/FBI_FinalDraft_26Jul2019_BSchlenker.pdf https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dXNjPQdQ8c-hFFLt9LT0GiSY5Vud0TzL/view?usp=sharing Please post this anywhere you can! Each google drive link is a backup to the wasabi link just in case one is "down". A word about the "f@#$ot" usage: it was a necessary tool. It showed three things: they were not in control, if they were the usage would have be stopped. Everyone out there needed to see t%his. Two, it made it unpleasant for them to be in the headspace, which has obvious advantages. Three, it pointed out impersonators of BS because they would not call each other faggot, thus helping to mitigate the spread of false information. Apologies for those unintentionally offended. Of special interest to the LGBT community, I give you Barack Obama in a foursome with Peter Thiel, Jack Dorsey, and Matthew Porter. It is on page 12 of the document where you can download the video containing audio footage of the "event". Link is just above under "Full 71 page document".
- edgarvaldes 7y agoIn México we say "It's in chinese". Interesting that so many comments here talk about spanish being used as equivalent for "greek" in their culture.
- yesenadam 7y agoThe awesome Argentinian move Un cuento chino is in English Chinese Take-Away or U.S. English Chinese Take-Out[0] ...because un cuento chino (literally, a Chinese story) means in Spanish a tall tale, a cock-and-bull story, a confusing mess[1], so the title (the movie features a Chinese guy and his extremely unlikely, hard-to-believe history) is rather untranslatable. Another expression relating to a confusing mess is the wonderful Hungarian Flood-resistant mirror-drilling machine: "Before Unicode became common in e-mail clients, e-mails containing Hungarian text often had the letters ő and ű corrupted, sometimes to the point of unrecognizability. It is common to respond to an e-mail rendered unreadable (see examples below) by character mangling (referred to as "betűszemét", meaning "garbage lettering") with the phrase "Árvíztűrő tükörfúrógép", a nonsense phrase (literally "Flood-resistant mirror-drilling machine") containing all accented characters used in Hungarian."[2] [0] Australia here. What in the U.S. is apparently called take-out is called take-away here. [1] https://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=un%20cuento%20chino https://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=un%... https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/un-cuento-chino.7730/ https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/un-cuento-chino.7730... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojibake#Hungarian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojibake#Hungarian
- D-Coder 7y agoEsperanto: It's Volapük to me (estas Volapukaĵo al mi).