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Or compare Los Angeles to Beverly Hills. These two cities share a border. Median incomes are way, way higher in Beverly Hills. And LA's poor millions are free t

Or compare Los Angeles to Beverly Hills. These two cities share a border. Median incomes are way, way higher in Beverly Hills. And LA's poor millions are free to crowd right into to Beverly Hills and just start grabbing up some of that wealth. But it barely happens at all. The two populations are not merging nearly as much as the shared border would predict.

coldtea 7y ago
>And LA's poor millions are free to crowd right into to Beverly Hills and just start grabbing up some of that wealth. Yeah, not really free. They can't pay rent in Beverly Hills, they can't afford to shop at Beverly Hills shops, they can't even be walking around looking poor without harassment (especially if also black/latino), they don't have access to closed communities, and so on...
- asdfman123 7y ago
  Wow, it's almost like the people who live in fancy, rich neighborhoods enforce both laws and social norms to keep their neighborhoods fancy and rich.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    Yeah, like redlining. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
- HillaryBriss 7y ago
  > They can't pay rent in Beverly Hills sure they can: eight or ten people can pool resources and rent a one bedroom apartment. happens all the time in other cities.
- HillaryBriss 7y ago
  > they can't even be walking around looking poor without harassment (especially if also black/latino) I don't quite know where you're getting that. I mean, it's not like the city has enacted some kind of Jim Crow regime. Beverly Hills residents were among Barack Obama's most generous donors. You think they would stand for that kind of evil in their own city? Beverly Hills is represented by Democrats at the state and national levels. It sits in the middle of one of California's bluest counties. Are you saying LA County is tolerating that kind of blatant discrimination in one of its cities? This isn't Louisiana or Alabama for goodness sake. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverly_Hills%2C_California#2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverly_Hills%2C_California#20...
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >I don't quite know where you're getting that. I mean, it's not like the city has enacted some kind of Jim Crow regime. Such places have done exactly that, in several ways. E.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining This a good source of tens of other methods (and it's not even up to day) used in L.A in general to keep the "riffraff" out: https://www.amazon.com/City-Quartz-Excavating-Future-Angeles/dp/1844675688 https://www.amazon.com/City-Quartz-Excavating-Future-Angeles... >Beverly Hills residents were among Barack Obama's most generous donors. That's not really relevant. They can virtue signal how non-racist they are (as long as it doesn't cost them anything real -- donations help buy favors) and still only live in 99% white areas, with closed gates, and local pops/private police ready to harass black/latino people for your protection. >You think they would stand for that kind of evil in their own city? 100%
    - HillaryBriss 7y ago
      > Such places have done exactly that, in several ways. E.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining You're not presenting evidence specific to Beverly Hills here. Saying that "such places have done exactly that" is not evidence of what's happening today specifically in Beverly Hills. And redlining is not a scheme for harassing people who are walking around on the street. Why is that your response in this context? > They can virtue signal how non-racist they are (as long as it doesn't cost them anything real -- donations help buy favors) and still only live in 99% white areas You're assuming the very point you should be proving. You haven't offered any evidence about why some BH residents supported Obama. Instead, you assigned them a motive without providing any objective evidence. How are you going to persuade anyone of your viewpoints that way? And Beverly Hills is not 99% white.
  - CapricornNoble 7y ago
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/beverly-hills-back-on-the_b_5732112 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/beverly-hills-back-on-the_b_5... Anecdote: my friend from Trinidad who has an affinity for Caucasian women told me a story of harassment in Beverly Hills. He and a lady friend were in the woman's Mercedes and the police pulled them over and kept asking the woman if she was "under duress".
- olalonde 7y ago
  I feel like you're both supporting the parent's point: fears about open international borders are overblown because things like cost of living, culture or private property naturally limit massive migration.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    Cost of living prevents a poor guy from some lesser LA area to rent in Beverly Hills. While the same "but how I would afford the same lifestyle in US" might be a concern for middle class immigrants from poorer countries considering getting there, it's not really relevant to mass immigration from poverty stricken areas, as people from there can (and do) enter the US and live in dirt poor areas, working whatever minimum wage job they find (in fact they're welcomed from employers for being able to get paid so much less), and taking it up from there if/when they can...
    - HillaryBriss 7y ago
      > ... mass immigration from poverty stricken areas, as people from there can (and do) enter the US and live in dirt poor areas it's also true that many people from poverty stricken areas in other countries live in moderate to expensive areas in LA County, like LA's West Side, Downtown, and Koreatown, as well as neighboring cities including Santa Monica, Burbank, West Hollywood, Torrance, etc. again, to do this, multiple inviduals or families simply pool resources and rent an apartment or house and share that space. given that about 9% of Beverly Hills's population falls below the poverty line, it's a safe bet that this high density renting strategy is also employed within that city.
  - HillaryBriss 7y ago
    i think you're right. and i don't even need to look at the open border situation in West Virginia. i mean, i can look much closer to where i live (LA). just from examining the nearby BH/LA border, we see that there may be other "invisible borders" (e.g. "Our prices discriminate so we don't have to") that prevent two populations from really fully merging. it seems likely that any "open border" is actually accompanied by a unique set of additional, invisible borders, and cultural, financial and linguistic "force fields," sometimes powerful, sometimes weak.

coldtea 7y ago

>And LA's poor millions are free to crowd right into to Beverly Hills and just start grabbing up some of that wealth. Yeah, not really free. They can't pay rent in Beverly Hills, they can't afford to shop at Beverly Hills shops, they can't even be walking around looking poor without harassment (especially if also black/latino), they don't have access to closed communities, and so on...

asdfman123 7y ago
Wow, it's almost like the people who live in fancy, rich neighborhoods enforce both laws and social norms to keep their neighborhoods fancy and rich.
- coldtea 7y ago
  Yeah, like redlining. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
HillaryBriss 7y ago
> They can't pay rent in Beverly Hills sure they can: eight or ten people can pool resources and rent a one bedroom apartment. happens all the time in other cities.
HillaryBriss 7y ago
> they can't even be walking around looking poor without harassment (especially if also black/latino) I don't quite know where you're getting that. I mean, it's not like the city has enacted some kind of Jim Crow regime. Beverly Hills residents were among Barack Obama's most generous donors. You think they would stand for that kind of evil in their own city? Beverly Hills is represented by Democrats at the state and national levels. It sits in the middle of one of California's bluest counties. Are you saying LA County is tolerating that kind of blatant discrimination in one of its cities? This isn't Louisiana or Alabama for goodness sake. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverly_Hills%2C_California#2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverly_Hills%2C_California#20...
- coldtea 7y ago
  >I don't quite know where you're getting that. I mean, it's not like the city has enacted some kind of Jim Crow regime. Such places have done exactly that, in several ways. E.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining This a good source of tens of other methods (and it's not even up to day) used in L.A in general to keep the "riffraff" out: https://www.amazon.com/City-Quartz-Excavating-Future-Angeles/dp/1844675688 https://www.amazon.com/City-Quartz-Excavating-Future-Angeles... >Beverly Hills residents were among Barack Obama's most generous donors. That's not really relevant. They can virtue signal how non-racist they are (as long as it doesn't cost them anything real -- donations help buy favors) and still only live in 99% white areas, with closed gates, and local pops/private police ready to harass black/latino people for your protection. >You think they would stand for that kind of evil in their own city? 100%
  - HillaryBriss 7y ago
    > Such places have done exactly that, in several ways. E.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining You're not presenting evidence specific to Beverly Hills here. Saying that "such places have done exactly that" is not evidence of what's happening today specifically in Beverly Hills. And redlining is not a scheme for harassing people who are walking around on the street. Why is that your response in this context? > They can virtue signal how non-racist they are (as long as it doesn't cost them anything real -- donations help buy favors) and still only live in 99% white areas You're assuming the very point you should be proving. You haven't offered any evidence about why some BH residents supported Obama. Instead, you assigned them a motive without providing any objective evidence. How are you going to persuade anyone of your viewpoints that way? And Beverly Hills is not 99% white.
- CapricornNoble 7y ago
  https://www.huffpost.com/entry/beverly-hills-back-on-the_b_5732112 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/beverly-hills-back-on-the_b_5... Anecdote: my friend from Trinidad who has an affinity for Caucasian women told me a story of harassment in Beverly Hills. He and a lady friend were in the woman's Mercedes and the police pulled them over and kept asking the woman if she was "under duress".
olalonde 7y ago
I feel like you're both supporting the parent's point: fears about open international borders are overblown because things like cost of living, culture or private property naturally limit massive migration.
- coldtea 7y ago
  Cost of living prevents a poor guy from some lesser LA area to rent in Beverly Hills. While the same "but how I would afford the same lifestyle in US" might be a concern for middle class immigrants from poorer countries considering getting there, it's not really relevant to mass immigration from poverty stricken areas, as people from there can (and do) enter the US and live in dirt poor areas, working whatever minimum wage job they find (in fact they're welcomed from employers for being able to get paid so much less), and taking it up from there if/when they can...
  - HillaryBriss 7y ago
    > ... mass immigration from poverty stricken areas, as people from there can (and do) enter the US and live in dirt poor areas it's also true that many people from poverty stricken areas in other countries live in moderate to expensive areas in LA County, like LA's West Side, Downtown, and Koreatown, as well as neighboring cities including Santa Monica, Burbank, West Hollywood, Torrance, etc. again, to do this, multiple inviduals or families simply pool resources and rent an apartment or house and share that space. given that about 9% of Beverly Hills's population falls below the poverty line, it's a safe bet that this high density renting strategy is also employed within that city.
- HillaryBriss 7y ago
  i think you're right. and i don't even need to look at the open border situation in West Virginia. i mean, i can look much closer to where i live (LA). just from examining the nearby BH/LA border, we see that there may be other "invisible borders" (e.g. "Our prices discriminate so we don't have to") that prevent two populations from really fully merging. it seems likely that any "open border" is actually accompanied by a unique set of additional, invisible borders, and cultural, financial and linguistic "force fields," sometimes powerful, sometimes weak.