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My understanding is that the world's preeminent ML researchers are refusing to contribute to the defense industry, are extremely well compensated in the private

My understanding is that the world's preeminent ML researchers are refusing to contribute to the defense industry, are extremely well compensated in the private sector, and prefer to publish their work over hiding it as a trade or national secret. Given this, how are we to believe that the NRO has developed the world's most capable ML system, somehow years ahead of a field that is already perhaps the most dynamic field of research in science, utilizing, at best, second rate talent? Mark me a skeptic.

cr0sh 7y ago
> second rate talent Not saying this is true - or even workable - but maybe they've figured out a way to apply so-called "second rate talent" to create "first rate results"? For instance, have you ever researched how machining and machine tools came to be? That is, how it was possible to create a machine capable of tolerances within say, 10-thousandths of an inch (that is, a really, really small amount, regardless of the units) - when the machines and tooling prior to that were no where near capable of doing that work? In other words - how were we able to make more accurate machines using less accurate machines? Maybe the same principles are being utilized by the NRO for this project...
- Invictus0 7y ago
  I'm a mechanical engineer and I have literally no idea what you're getting at here. We can machine to 10mil because we have precision motors and measurement equipment. For $25 you can get a micrometer off Amazon which is accurate to .0001.
deleted 7y ago
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jandrewrogers 7y ago
If you define "world's preeminent ML researchers" as people who publish then you are begging the question. Would you be aware of preeminent ML researchers that don't publish? I think it is mistake to underestimate the computer science talent inside parts of the US intelligence community, some of it is exceptionally good. Most people in Silicon Valley have never met or worked with these people. I once asked a former professor from a highly regarded CS school why he quit academia to work for one of the agencies. For him it was simple: he could spend his days doing nothing but hardcore non-incremental CS research while avoiding the politics, incrementalism, and other tendencies of academia. Pure quality of life doing meaningful work in a low stress environment was more valuable to him than money or status. Many people do research solely for the challenge of solving hard problems, publishing is not important to them. The inclusiveness and diversity of the work environment is also an overlooked attraction. The demographics don't look like your typical SV startup. Government organizations have many issues but providing equal opportunity for minorities is not one of them. Not everyone is comfortable working for tech companies. There may be nothing to the article but don't write it off solely on the basis of presumed "second rate talent". There are research groups inside US intelligence that have world-class talent on par with the FAANG companies.

cr0sh 7y ago

> second rate talent Not saying this is true - or even workable - but maybe they've figured out a way to apply so-called "second rate talent" to create "first rate results"? For instance, have you ever researched how machining and machine tools came to be? That is, how it was possible to create a machine capable of tolerances within say, 10-thousandths of an inch (that is, a really, really small amount, regardless of the units) - when the machines and tooling prior to that were no where near capable of doing that work? In other words - how were we able to make more accurate machines using less accurate machines? Maybe the same principles are being utilized by the NRO for this project...

Invictus0 7y ago
I'm a mechanical engineer and I have literally no idea what you're getting at here. We can machine to 10mil because we have precision motors and measurement equipment. For $25 you can get a micrometer off Amazon which is accurate to .0001.

deleted 7y ago

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jandrewrogers 7y ago

If you define "world's preeminent ML researchers" as people who publish then you are begging the question. Would you be aware of preeminent ML researchers that don't publish? I think it is mistake to underestimate the computer science talent inside parts of the US intelligence community, some of it is exceptionally good. Most people in Silicon Valley have never met or worked with these people. I once asked a former professor from a highly regarded CS school why he quit academia to work for one of the agencies. For him it was simple: he could spend his days doing nothing but hardcore non-incremental CS research while avoiding the politics, incrementalism, and other tendencies of academia. Pure quality of life doing meaningful work in a low stress environment was more valuable to him than money or status. Many people do research solely for the challenge of solving hard problems, publishing is not important to them. The inclusiveness and diversity of the work environment is also an overlooked attraction. The demographics don't look like your typical SV startup. Government organizations have many issues but providing equal opportunity for minorities is not one of them. Not everyone is comfortable working for tech companies. There may be nothing to the article but don't write it off solely on the basis of presumed "second rate talent". There are research groups inside US intelligence that have world-class talent on par with the FAANG companies.