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Yeah except I don't own my own home so I can't install a car chargers or live in a city with chargers and electric cars can't drive half as far as a gas car and

Yeah except I don't own my own home so I can't install a car chargers or live in a city with chargers and electric cars can't drive half as far as a gas car and cost twice as much as a gas car... But almost no reason. #sarcasm

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Zanni 7y ago
Yeah, those are the three pain points, for sure. Public charging infrastructure is unevenly distributed and mostly terrible. Level 1 chargers for (14-20 mph of charging) are completely inadequate for public use and yet we keep adding more of them (every Level 1 charger is a wasted space/opportunity to install an actually useful Level 2/3 charger). But range is improving rapidly. The new Model S is up to nearly 400 miles of range. Even the long range Model 3 gets 300 miles. And prices are approaching reasonable when you factor in total cost of ownership. We're still in the early adopter part of the growth curve, but rapidly approaching the tipping point.
- WorldMaker 7y ago
  Level 1 charging is traditional wall plug / electrical outlet. The chargers you are complaining about are always Level 2 or higher, and most people are ignoring the opportunities in Level 1 charger build outs, because 7-10 miles per hour charged for every hour a car is sitting in a parking lot can still be a big deal for a lot of use cases (for instance, the 8 hours you should be parked at work, that's 56-80 miles added during the average work day). We really could add Level 1 charging everywhere, because almost everywhere has power. It's Level 2+ chargers that require all the extra new infrastructure, higher amperage circuits, and fancy charging hardware. (Level 2 itself is the next most potentially ubiquitous as it is "just" dryer plug, though I've never seen a dryer plug Level 2 charger like you can find Level 1 chargers with traditional plugs. Level 3+ is where you start to leave the range of ordinary homes and businesses.)
  - Zanni 7y ago
    My mistake. Apparently there are stratifications within Level 2, and I've mostly encountered 240V 3.8KW chargers, which are about 12 mph, but there are also 240V 7.6KW chargers at about 26 mph. Level 1 charging makes sense at an office park if it's nearly ubiquitous. If it's a crap shoot whether you'll get a space or not, it becomes much less valuable. And it's still useless for public charging (mostly confined to mall and store parking lots) because you can't leave your car there for the 8+ hours it takes to get a decent charge. BTW, my research says 4.5mph for Level 1 which makes even 8 hours of charging underwhelming. For any space where you can only park for a few hours (3 hours is a commonly enforced limit), then anything less than Level 2 7.6KW is a waste of space. Level 3 chargers are huge and expensive, as you point out, and will probably be limited to dedicated charging stations for the foreseeable future.
hndamien 7y ago
You'd be surprised how liveable it is with plugging into a power point while at home and use of superchargers and shopping center chargers.
beatgammit 7y ago
I own my own home, so my main concern is travel. We visit family 2-3 times/year, and I don't really want to charge at their house since it's a fairly significant cost. There aren't any charging stations near their houses (my family all live in relatively small towns). They also live fairly far away, so we'd have to stop a few times (10-14 hours driving). Stopping once or twice is reasonable (need to stop for lunch anyway), 3-4 times would be annoying. So, we're probably going to have a gas car for the foreseeable future. We could have an electric car as a second car (for local trips), but that means having a second car (we're a one-car family) which has its own set of expenses and inconveniences (car seats, insurance, etc). I've thought about getting an electric car and renting a gas car whenever we need to go on a trip, but so far the numbers haven't worked out. I'm definitely keeping an eye out.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Zanni 7y ago

Yeah, those are the three pain points, for sure. Public charging infrastructure is unevenly distributed and mostly terrible. Level 1 chargers for (14-20 mph of charging) are completely inadequate for public use and yet we keep adding more of them (every Level 1 charger is a wasted space/opportunity to install an actually useful Level 2/3 charger). But range is improving rapidly. The new Model S is up to nearly 400 miles of range. Even the long range Model 3 gets 300 miles. And prices are approaching reasonable when you factor in total cost of ownership. We're still in the early adopter part of the growth curve, but rapidly approaching the tipping point.

WorldMaker 7y ago
Level 1 charging is traditional wall plug / electrical outlet. The chargers you are complaining about are always Level 2 or higher, and most people are ignoring the opportunities in Level 1 charger build outs, because 7-10 miles per hour charged for every hour a car is sitting in a parking lot can still be a big deal for a lot of use cases (for instance, the 8 hours you should be parked at work, that's 56-80 miles added during the average work day). We really could add Level 1 charging everywhere, because almost everywhere has power. It's Level 2+ chargers that require all the extra new infrastructure, higher amperage circuits, and fancy charging hardware. (Level 2 itself is the next most potentially ubiquitous as it is "just" dryer plug, though I've never seen a dryer plug Level 2 charger like you can find Level 1 chargers with traditional plugs. Level 3+ is where you start to leave the range of ordinary homes and businesses.)
- Zanni 7y ago
  My mistake. Apparently there are stratifications within Level 2, and I've mostly encountered 240V 3.8KW chargers, which are about 12 mph, but there are also 240V 7.6KW chargers at about 26 mph. Level 1 charging makes sense at an office park if it's nearly ubiquitous. If it's a crap shoot whether you'll get a space or not, it becomes much less valuable. And it's still useless for public charging (mostly confined to mall and store parking lots) because you can't leave your car there for the 8+ hours it takes to get a decent charge. BTW, my research says 4.5mph for Level 1 which makes even 8 hours of charging underwhelming. For any space where you can only park for a few hours (3 hours is a commonly enforced limit), then anything less than Level 2 7.6KW is a waste of space. Level 3 chargers are huge and expensive, as you point out, and will probably be limited to dedicated charging stations for the foreseeable future.

hndamien 7y ago

You'd be surprised how liveable it is with plugging into a power point while at home and use of superchargers and shopping center chargers.

beatgammit 7y ago

I own my own home, so my main concern is travel. We visit family 2-3 times/year, and I don't really want to charge at their house since it's a fairly significant cost. There aren't any charging stations near their houses (my family all live in relatively small towns). They also live fairly far away, so we'd have to stop a few times (10-14 hours driving). Stopping once or twice is reasonable (need to stop for lunch anyway), 3-4 times would be annoying. So, we're probably going to have a gas car for the foreseeable future. We could have an electric car as a second car (for local trips), but that means having a second car (we're a one-car family) which has its own set of expenses and inconveniences (car seats, insurance, etc). I've thought about getting an electric car and renting a gas car whenever we need to go on a trip, but so far the numbers haven't worked out. I'm definitely keeping an eye out.