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Here's the story - HMNY ( Helios & Matheson Analytics - the parent company of MoviePass) is owned by an Indian company that filed for bankruptcy in 2016 and the

Here's the story - HMNY ( Helios & Matheson Analytics - the parent company of MoviePass) is owned by an Indian company that filed for bankruptcy in 2016 and then re-emerged with MoviePass in the US. The entire thing is probably a giant money laundering or tax evasion scheme. https://www.moneylife.in/article/helios-matheson-liquidated-in-india-but-nasdaq-listed-hm-offshoot-thrives/54261.html?fbclid=IwAR0nT-Jh66CSfJZpMOp-1N9m-59lRUemgk4NHndzpBlNHPUv5BVmmaothkg https://www.moneylife.in/article/helios-matheson-liquidated-... https://www.insider.com/moviepass-owner-emerged-from-indian-company-accused-of-massive-fraud-2018-7?fbclid=IwAR3j9bVmfUChrqEadBVDO3F1Xv1_ZXv2fkhmtlhH4-j9DTUpqLYQbE0faoU https://www.insider.com/moviepass-owner-emerged-from-indian-...

jonknee 7y ago
> The entire thing is probably a giant money laundering or tax evasion scheme. Donating money to movie theaters is not how money laundering or tax evasion occurs.
- peteradio 7y ago
  Losses can be tax deducted to cover partially reported incomes.
  - jonknee 7y ago
    Yes, and not giving away the money in the first place is even more profitable. When you hear about these schemes they are generally paper losses (depreciation being a big one). It's not in your interest to hand AMC millions of dollars for a tax deduction.
    - peteradio 7y ago
      Well if we are talking tax evasion and money laundering we might as well include conspiracy.
      - jonknee 7y ago
        But it's not a conspiracy, Movie Pass really did pay theaters full price for tickets while charging customers $10 a month. It lost a huge amount of money. No one disputes any of this, it's just someone who doesn't know anything who said "money laundering". They are wrong, it was an obviously bad business, not a money laundering or tax scheme.
        cntrlaltdlt 7y ago
        I think it is not a for stretch invoking "money laundering" is a knee jerk reaction to seeing crazy business model that doesn't make sense --> something fishy must be going on. While the neighbor of incompetence maybe malice they are rarely home, and if they are even more rarely seen in the house. I know that when I first learned of movie pass years ago and it was explained to me. It made literally no sense how they'd turn a dollar despite it being explained to me more times than I can count. I also remember thinking it sounded like some alternative scheme was going on. However I probably acted more paranoid than the rest and decided to pass on getting cheap movie tickets.
  - SilasX 7y ago
    Bankrupt companies don't have income they need to cancel out with a loss.
- m463 7y ago
  What if you donate dirty money, then collect clean money from subscribers?
crazygringo 7y ago
Considering how all money streams for MoviePass depend on domestic card transactions which generate 100% auditable records... I'm completely failing to see how it could possibly result in money laundering or tax evasion. Can you explain how? I don't see any obvious explanation in the articles you linked.
- jonknee 7y ago
  It's in vogue to describe a business you don't understand as "money laundering" even when you don't understand money laundering.
  - FrozenTuna 7y ago
    Ok, but what about mattress stores? Are you telling me they aren't for money laundering?
    - vageli 7y ago
      > Ok, but what about mattress stores? Are you telling me they aren't for money laundering? Margins are insanely high on mattresses. Why the connection to money laundering?
      - velp 7y ago
        It's become a meme, likely due to the clusters of mattress stores that seem to pop up despite zero customers.
    - sp332 7y ago
      Mattress Firm's parent company was up to some sketchy stuff. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-steinhoff-intlnl-ceo/steinhoff-says-probes-accounting-irregularities-ceo-resigns-idUSKBN1DZ31M https://www.reuters.com/article/us-steinhoff-intlnl-ceo/stei... The CEO resigned.
    - jonny_eh 7y ago
      Planet Money covered that: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/12/13/676538506/why-are-there-so-many-mattress-stores https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/12/13/676538506/why-...

jonknee 7y ago

> The entire thing is probably a giant money laundering or tax evasion scheme. Donating money to movie theaters is not how money laundering or tax evasion occurs.

peteradio 7y ago
Losses can be tax deducted to cover partially reported incomes.
- jonknee 7y ago
  Yes, and not giving away the money in the first place is even more profitable. When you hear about these schemes they are generally paper losses (depreciation being a big one). It's not in your interest to hand AMC millions of dollars for a tax deduction.
  - peteradio 7y ago
    Well if we are talking tax evasion and money laundering we might as well include conspiracy.
    - jonknee 7y ago
      But it's not a conspiracy, Movie Pass really did pay theaters full price for tickets while charging customers $10 a month. It lost a huge amount of money. No one disputes any of this, it's just someone who doesn't know anything who said "money laundering". They are wrong, it was an obviously bad business, not a money laundering or tax scheme.
      - cntrlaltdlt 7y ago
        I think it is not a for stretch invoking "money laundering" is a knee jerk reaction to seeing crazy business model that doesn't make sense --> something fishy must be going on. While the neighbor of incompetence maybe malice they are rarely home, and if they are even more rarely seen in the house. I know that when I first learned of movie pass years ago and it was explained to me. It made literally no sense how they'd turn a dollar despite it being explained to me more times than I can count. I also remember thinking it sounded like some alternative scheme was going on. However I probably acted more paranoid than the rest and decided to pass on getting cheap movie tickets.
- SilasX 7y ago
  Bankrupt companies don't have income they need to cancel out with a loss.
m463 7y ago
What if you donate dirty money, then collect clean money from subscribers?

crazygringo 7y ago

Considering how all money streams for MoviePass depend on domestic card transactions which generate 100% auditable records... I'm completely failing to see how it could possibly result in money laundering or tax evasion. Can you explain how? I don't see any obvious explanation in the articles you linked.

jonknee 7y ago
It's in vogue to describe a business you don't understand as "money laundering" even when you don't understand money laundering.
- FrozenTuna 7y ago
  Ok, but what about mattress stores? Are you telling me they aren't for money laundering?
  - vageli 7y ago
    > Ok, but what about mattress stores? Are you telling me they aren't for money laundering? Margins are insanely high on mattresses. Why the connection to money laundering?
    - velp 7y ago
      It's become a meme, likely due to the clusters of mattress stores that seem to pop up despite zero customers.
  - sp332 7y ago
    Mattress Firm's parent company was up to some sketchy stuff. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-steinhoff-intlnl-ceo/steinhoff-says-probes-accounting-irregularities-ceo-resigns-idUSKBN1DZ31M https://www.reuters.com/article/us-steinhoff-intlnl-ceo/stei... The CEO resigned.
  - jonny_eh 7y ago
    Planet Money covered that: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/12/13/676538506/why-are-there-so-many-mattress-stores https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/12/13/676538506/why-...