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“should as such not be disruptive to our users” and “Elements of artificial intelligence will be more commonly used in applications and devices, and we will nee

“should as such not be disruptive to our users” and “Elements of artificial intelligence will be more commonly used in applications and devices, and we will need to have easy ways to integrate with those.” told me everything I need to keep away. Focus QT! What do you want? Do that well.

dkersten 7y ago
Uggh, yeah. I'm excited (well, as excited as I can be as someone who writes server/web software these days) about some of the stuff mentioned, but this is off-putting. It has no place in a GUI-focused framework in my opinion.
- kuschku 7y ago
  Qt isn’t just a UI focused framework, it’s a full stack framework, from UI widgets over included web frameworks all the way down to native integration. Especially in automotive you’ll find that pretty much all media/entertainment functionality is running Qt, all the way through the stack.
  - smt88 7y ago
    Telling us that automotive interfaces run Qt is the most scathing comment on Qt that you could possibly have written.
    - ahartmetz 7y ago
      Let me use a car analogy (heh) to critique your reasoning: "Telling us that automotive interfaces run on Linux is the most scathing comment on Linux that you could possibly have written." I have worked on IVI ("in-vehicle infotainment") software and I can tell you that Qt is not even remotely the problem. The problem is... car companies are really, really bad at software development.
      - blattimwind 7y ago
        Most of the development is outsourced through so many levels it might as well be done on mars. "Hardware design? Yes we do that all here in Germany. Oh about the software? No we don't do software." Manufacturers still have not realized that the software is crucial and cannot be regarded as a cost-center which needs to be outsourced at the lowest possible cost. And it's quite obvious that they don't do much testing at all, either (even without knowing they don't, it's obvious). It's the only way how you can end up with for example a reversing camera that practically never works if you start the car in R.
      - smt88 7y ago
        By that reasoning, no one should criticize Electron because VS Code (and a few others) have managed to make it performant. My comment was partly tongue-in-cheek, but the kernel of truth in it is this: a good UI tool makes it easy to build what you want without sacrificing speed, not hard. Electron makes it incredibly hard (though still possible). I'd be interested to know how much better of a balance Qt strikes.
        blub 7y ago
        UI development is not a purely technical discipline, in fact it's very much shaped by design and user experience. To put it another way - if font rendering's poor or the UI's rendered at 15fps maybe one could blame the UI framework (although not always), otherwise it's on the programmers and designers.
    - tyfon 7y ago
      Tesla is using Qt, that's not a bad ui imho. Not sure what my Toyota is running but the base system is QNX and Qt runs on that system too. The touch screen and cpu is crap though not necessarily the ui.
      - jschwartzi 7y ago
        It could also be Crank Storyboard. They're more tightly-focused on pushing pixels than Qt is and their framework is more focused on turning your Photoshop drawing of a UI into a UI but they skewed heavily into the Automotive realm.
  - danielscrubs 7y ago
    And all the users hate it and just connects their mobiles instead. It’s like they ask each developer at the firm what they want to do instead of their customers.
    - Crinus 7y ago
      Ideally developers would ask their users so that information would roll towards Qt developers. In practice developers just ask for whatever shiny toys they want to play with.
  - dkersten 7y ago
    That's fair enough, I suppose. It is a large full featured batteries-included framework. Still, I feel like the existing stuff (last I used Qt anyway) all felt at home all made some sense: it was either interface related (user interface, network interface, file interface) or general tools to work with those interfaces (event loop, signals & slots, containers, MVC). I suppose maybe you could argue that AI stuff is also interfacing with other stuff. Still, it seems that its constantly expanding its scope. I wish it didn't, I wish they'd focus on making Qt Quick more desktop friendly (sounds like they have some plans for that in Qt 6, but.. I wish they'd focus heavily on that). A big reason why I stopped using Qt was because of the disconnect between Qt Quick and QWidgets. I like QML a lot, but I'm not making mobile apps. Then again, its been ages that I had any use for Qt. Most of my work is backend or web and even mobile apps, which is something I would have considered Qt for in the past, I would now look into react native or PWA's.
azinman2 7y ago
Ya I read the AI think and I was like hmmm... I guess the editor thought there wasn’t enough buzzwords in the article. I’d love to see what this “easy integration” between “AI” and a GUI framework looks like.
- nerdponx 7y ago
  AI is the "mobile" of 2019.
monocasa 7y ago
I mean, the second one makes sense to me. Medical loves QT, and I can see them wanting easier integration of visual recognition models (think "detects breast cancer on an MRI" models) with the GUI. I could totally see wanting to really easily plug and unplug different models and overlaying their results, bringing you full circle to the GUI. Basically easier integration with complex heavily multipass GPGPU visual results.
- danielscrubs 7y ago
  Can you explain what you mean? Normally you just send in the pic to Tensorflow that then uses the gpu, where would QT enter the picture that would be more than two lines of code?
  - v-yadli 7y ago
    If they mean better python integration.. then YES
  - wwright 7y ago
    TensorFlow needs a lot of scaffolding for managing the lifecycle of data/&c. A big attraction of Qt is that it is often more like writing Java than C++.

dkersten 7y ago

Uggh, yeah. I'm excited (well, as excited as I can be as someone who writes server/web software these days) about some of the stuff mentioned, but this is off-putting. It has no place in a GUI-focused framework in my opinion.

kuschku 7y ago
Qt isn’t just a UI focused framework, it’s a full stack framework, from UI widgets over included web frameworks all the way down to native integration. Especially in automotive you’ll find that pretty much all media/entertainment functionality is running Qt, all the way through the stack.
- smt88 7y ago
  Telling us that automotive interfaces run Qt is the most scathing comment on Qt that you could possibly have written.
  - ahartmetz 7y ago
    Let me use a car analogy (heh) to critique your reasoning: "Telling us that automotive interfaces run on Linux is the most scathing comment on Linux that you could possibly have written." I have worked on IVI ("in-vehicle infotainment") software and I can tell you that Qt is not even remotely the problem. The problem is... car companies are really, really bad at software development.
    - blattimwind 7y ago
      Most of the development is outsourced through so many levels it might as well be done on mars. "Hardware design? Yes we do that all here in Germany. Oh about the software? No we don't do software." Manufacturers still have not realized that the software is crucial and cannot be regarded as a cost-center which needs to be outsourced at the lowest possible cost. And it's quite obvious that they don't do much testing at all, either (even without knowing they don't, it's obvious). It's the only way how you can end up with for example a reversing camera that practically never works if you start the car in R.
    - smt88 7y ago
      By that reasoning, no one should criticize Electron because VS Code (and a few others) have managed to make it performant. My comment was partly tongue-in-cheek, but the kernel of truth in it is this: a good UI tool makes it easy to build what you want without sacrificing speed, not hard. Electron makes it incredibly hard (though still possible). I'd be interested to know how much better of a balance Qt strikes.
      - blub 7y ago
        UI development is not a purely technical discipline, in fact it's very much shaped by design and user experience. To put it another way - if font rendering's poor or the UI's rendered at 15fps maybe one could blame the UI framework (although not always), otherwise it's on the programmers and designers.
  - tyfon 7y ago
    Tesla is using Qt, that's not a bad ui imho. Not sure what my Toyota is running but the base system is QNX and Qt runs on that system too. The touch screen and cpu is crap though not necessarily the ui.
    - jschwartzi 7y ago
      It could also be Crank Storyboard. They're more tightly-focused on pushing pixels than Qt is and their framework is more focused on turning your Photoshop drawing of a UI into a UI but they skewed heavily into the Automotive realm.
- danielscrubs 7y ago
  And all the users hate it and just connects their mobiles instead. It’s like they ask each developer at the firm what they want to do instead of their customers.
  - Crinus 7y ago
    Ideally developers would ask their users so that information would roll towards Qt developers. In practice developers just ask for whatever shiny toys they want to play with.
- dkersten 7y ago
  That's fair enough, I suppose. It is a large full featured batteries-included framework. Still, I feel like the existing stuff (last I used Qt anyway) all felt at home all made some sense: it was either interface related (user interface, network interface, file interface) or general tools to work with those interfaces (event loop, signals & slots, containers, MVC). I suppose maybe you could argue that AI stuff is also interfacing with other stuff. Still, it seems that its constantly expanding its scope. I wish it didn't, I wish they'd focus on making Qt Quick more desktop friendly (sounds like they have some plans for that in Qt 6, but.. I wish they'd focus heavily on that). A big reason why I stopped using Qt was because of the disconnect between Qt Quick and QWidgets. I like QML a lot, but I'm not making mobile apps. Then again, its been ages that I had any use for Qt. Most of my work is backend or web and even mobile apps, which is something I would have considered Qt for in the past, I would now look into react native or PWA's.

azinman2 7y ago

Ya I read the AI think and I was like hmmm... I guess the editor thought there wasn’t enough buzzwords in the article. I’d love to see what this “easy integration” between “AI” and a GUI framework looks like.

nerdponx 7y ago
AI is the "mobile" of 2019.

monocasa 7y ago

I mean, the second one makes sense to me. Medical loves QT, and I can see them wanting easier integration of visual recognition models (think "detects breast cancer on an MRI" models) with the GUI. I could totally see wanting to really easily plug and unplug different models and overlaying their results, bringing you full circle to the GUI. Basically easier integration with complex heavily multipass GPGPU visual results.

danielscrubs 7y ago
Can you explain what you mean? Normally you just send in the pic to Tensorflow that then uses the gpu, where would QT enter the picture that would be more than two lines of code?
- v-yadli 7y ago
  If they mean better python integration.. then YES
- wwright 7y ago
  TensorFlow needs a lot of scaffolding for managing the lifecycle of data/&c. A big attraction of Qt is that it is often more like writing Java than C++.