5 ms·

There was definitely racism in the passing and enforcing of these laws. There was also definitely communities overran with drug related crime that were despera

There was definitely racism in the passing and enforcing of these laws. There was also definitely communities overran with drug related crime that were desperate for help. When a single mom can't buy her kid a bicycle because the last 3 have been stolen out from under him by addicts looking to score, she's going to ask the her elected representatives for help.

saagarjha 7y ago
> When a single mom can't buy her kid a bicycle because the last 3 have been stolen out from under him by addicts looking to score That seems like burglary/robbery rather than a drug-related offense.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  How would a burglary intended to obtain money to buy drugs not be "drug-related"?
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Does intent matter when you commit a crime? Do you get a different sentence if you use the money to buy drugs rather than food?
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      Intent absolutely matters - think murder vs. involuntary manslaughter, or even first degree versus second degree murder. A lot of legal definitions of crimes even include the statement "with intent to..." - "drug possession with intent to distribute" is a good example. It's also completely besides the point here, as we're discussing the statement: > There was also definitely communities overran with drug related crime that were desperate for help. arguing that these sorts of drug-related crimes motivated some communities to embrace "hard on crime" attitudes.
ZeroGravitas 7y ago
That latter paragraph sounds a lot like the things people say when they want to deny racism was part of the war on drugs. What often gets missed is that high up members of the Republican party are on record as intentionally escalating the war on drugs to attack their enemies (black people and anti war hippies amongst others). So if they thought that the war on drugs wasn't a "problem" but rather an opportunity, then they have no incentive to "solve" the problem, in fact quite the opposite. Any consequences that then follow from drug related crime must ultimately fall at their door, not the person they've led into addiction by policy.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  As a concrete example, Bush Sr.'s famous speech on crack involved begging a drug dealer to come to Pennsylvania Avenue so they could include that fact in it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/tours/scandal/bushdrug.htm?noredirect=on https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/tours/s... > But obtaining the crack was no easy feat. To match the words crafted by the speech-writers, Drug Enforcement Administration agents lured a suspected District drug dealer to Lafayette Park four days before the speech so they could make what appears to have been the agency's first undercover crack buy in a park better known for its location across Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House than for illegal drug activity, according to officials familiar with the case. > In fact, when first contacted by an undercover DEA agent posing as a drug buyer, the teenage suspect seemed baffled by the agent's request. > "Where the {expletive} is the White House?" he replied in a conversation that was secretly tape-recorded by the DEA. > "We had to manipulate him to get him down there," said William McMullan, assistant special agent in charge of DEA's Washington field office. "It wasn't easy."

saagarjha 7y ago

> When a single mom can't buy her kid a bicycle because the last 3 have been stolen out from under him by addicts looking to score That seems like burglary/robbery rather than a drug-related offense.

ceejayoz 7y ago
How would a burglary intended to obtain money to buy drugs not be "drug-related"?
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Does intent matter when you commit a crime? Do you get a different sentence if you use the money to buy drugs rather than food?
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    Intent absolutely matters - think murder vs. involuntary manslaughter, or even first degree versus second degree murder. A lot of legal definitions of crimes even include the statement "with intent to..." - "drug possession with intent to distribute" is a good example. It's also completely besides the point here, as we're discussing the statement: > There was also definitely communities overran with drug related crime that were desperate for help. arguing that these sorts of drug-related crimes motivated some communities to embrace "hard on crime" attitudes.

ZeroGravitas 7y ago

That latter paragraph sounds a lot like the things people say when they want to deny racism was part of the war on drugs. What often gets missed is that high up members of the Republican party are on record as intentionally escalating the war on drugs to attack their enemies (black people and anti war hippies amongst others). So if they thought that the war on drugs wasn't a "problem" but rather an opportunity, then they have no incentive to "solve" the problem, in fact quite the opposite. Any consequences that then follow from drug related crime must ultimately fall at their door, not the person they've led into addiction by policy.

ceejayoz 7y ago
As a concrete example, Bush Sr.'s famous speech on crack involved begging a drug dealer to come to Pennsylvania Avenue so they could include that fact in it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/tours/scandal/bushdrug.htm?noredirect=on https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/tours/s... > But obtaining the crack was no easy feat. To match the words crafted by the speech-writers, Drug Enforcement Administration agents lured a suspected District drug dealer to Lafayette Park four days before the speech so they could make what appears to have been the agency's first undercover crack buy in a park better known for its location across Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House than for illegal drug activity, according to officials familiar with the case. > In fact, when first contacted by an undercover DEA agent posing as a drug buyer, the teenage suspect seemed baffled by the agent's request. > "Where the {expletive} is the White House?" he replied in a conversation that was secretly tape-recorded by the DEA. > "We had to manipulate him to get him down there," said William McMullan, assistant special agent in charge of DEA's Washington field office. "It wasn't easy."