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> ”That distinction belongs to the DNA and microbes contained in the almost 100 bags of feces and urine left behind by American astronauts during the Apollo lun

> ”That distinction belongs to the DNA and microbes contained in the almost 100 bags of feces and urine left behind by American astronauts during the Apollo lunar landings from 1969-1972.” Gross! Talk about littering and polluting a pristine environment. This is at least as bad as the climbers who leave poop on Everest, where it doesn’t biodegrade. Is it really so hard to bring poop back with you? Were payload restrictions that tight on the return Apollo journeys?

itronitron 7y ago
i wonder if they accounted for the reduction in mass when calculating the return trajectory
- bencollier49 7y ago
  Difficult to figure out how regular the astronauts would be.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - lawlessone 7y ago
    they probably had them on a strict diet and knew pretty well.
- Pigo 7y ago
  TIL if someday we travel to new worlds, outside Sol, and find remnants of sentient life having been there, it will most likely be the poop they left behind.
- maxerickson 7y ago
  Probably in the sense that they predicted a range of masses that the lander would have to be able to launch with. I doubt they shaved things close enough where a few dozen pounds were make or break though.
- pwinnski 7y ago
  The reduction in mass by consumption of food was likely offset by the collection of samples of rock and dust.
nesadi 7y ago
I assume it's mostly a matter of fuel and how the added weight would've required far more of it. > Were payload restrictions that tight on the return Apollo journeys? Probably, yes. https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/3/22/18236125/apollo-moon-poop-mars-science https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/3/22/18236125/ap...
- jermaustin1 7y ago
  They brought it with them (in the form of food and water and what was already in their body), taking it back should have been in their calculations.
  - cmpb 7y ago
    I think it’s more likely that it was in their calculations to not bring them back.
  - nesadi 7y ago
    They also took a bunch of rocks with them, which had to be accounted for. I have no idea what their exact calculations were like.
  - egdod 7y ago
    It's not a matter of whether or not it was in the calculations. It's how much fuel you could save by leaving some mass on the moon.
  - pwinnski 7y ago
    They traded food (in the form of poop) for rock samples, if that makes you feel any better.
  - jermaustin1 7y ago
    Not sure why I'm getting down voted like this. The golden rule of exploration is "Take nothing but pictures. Leave nothing but footprints. Kill nothing but time." By bending these "rules", we have now contaminated a once pristine environment, and new scientific discoveries will have to eliminate our contamination on anything they find. From bacteria to tardigrades, to liquids and other potential chemical contaminant.
pvaldes 7y ago
Those were turdigrades, different class.
makerofspoons 7y ago
Before Apollo it is possible that missions like Surveyor 3 were contaminated with bacteria like Streptococcus mitis which may have been found on components of Surveyor 3 returned by Apollo astronauts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveyor_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveyor_3
duchenne 7y ago
Confucious would reply: When the wise man builds an incredible machine that can bring us to the Moon, the fool looks at the bags of feces. More seriously, because of the rocket equation, bringing more payload back would require a lot more fuel. Bringing this additional fuel to the Moon would also require even more fuel. The Saturn rocket is still the biggest rocket ever made. Probably, the engineers back then did not want to make an even bigger one just to bring back the bags.
- dogma1138 7y ago
  Even if they built a larger rocket it would be better to pack more people, experiments or bring back more samples than poop. We got enough poop on earth, the bacteria would die due to UV and hard vacuum you could even decontaminate the left overs before chugging them out of the window on your way back home if you want to be extra careful.
raverbashing 7y ago
The low "air" pressure, lack of atmosphere, lack of magnetosphere, radiation (including UV radiation from the sun) kinda makes sure it becomes a non-issue in a short time. That's why NASA probably didn't worry about leaving it there too much. It won't decay biologically though. I disagree with "Pristine environment", it gets hit with extra-solar-system all the time, as the several marks on its surface attest to it.
Retra 7y ago
From an outside perspective, that waste is probably the most interesting and valuable part of the moon now. And this idea of 'purity' is rather absurd, given the size of the moon. Almost nothing in the universe is so pure that you can't find contaminants on the order of ~1 part per mole. Do you complain when someone leaves a gold atom on a sugar cube?
usefulcat 7y ago
Well, they could have, but if they had they would have brought back fewer samples of actual material from the surface of the moon. Given the enormous expense and risk involved in getting there, it's far from obvious to me that they made the wrong decision.

itronitron 7y ago

i wonder if they accounted for the reduction in mass when calculating the return trajectory

bencollier49 7y ago
Difficult to figure out how regular the astronauts would be.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- lawlessone 7y ago
  they probably had them on a strict diet and knew pretty well.
Pigo 7y ago
TIL if someday we travel to new worlds, outside Sol, and find remnants of sentient life having been there, it will most likely be the poop they left behind.
maxerickson 7y ago
Probably in the sense that they predicted a range of masses that the lander would have to be able to launch with. I doubt they shaved things close enough where a few dozen pounds were make or break though.
pwinnski 7y ago
The reduction in mass by consumption of food was likely offset by the collection of samples of rock and dust.

nesadi 7y ago

I assume it's mostly a matter of fuel and how the added weight would've required far more of it. > Were payload restrictions that tight on the return Apollo journeys? Probably, yes. https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/3/22/18236125/apollo-moon-poop-mars-science https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/3/22/18236125/ap...

jermaustin1 7y ago
They brought it with them (in the form of food and water and what was already in their body), taking it back should have been in their calculations.
- cmpb 7y ago
  I think it’s more likely that it was in their calculations to not bring them back.
- nesadi 7y ago
  They also took a bunch of rocks with them, which had to be accounted for. I have no idea what their exact calculations were like.
- egdod 7y ago
  It's not a matter of whether or not it was in the calculations. It's how much fuel you could save by leaving some mass on the moon.
- pwinnski 7y ago
  They traded food (in the form of poop) for rock samples, if that makes you feel any better.
- jermaustin1 7y ago
  Not sure why I'm getting down voted like this. The golden rule of exploration is "Take nothing but pictures. Leave nothing but footprints. Kill nothing but time." By bending these "rules", we have now contaminated a once pristine environment, and new scientific discoveries will have to eliminate our contamination on anything they find. From bacteria to tardigrades, to liquids and other potential chemical contaminant.

pvaldes 7y ago

Those were turdigrades, different class.

makerofspoons 7y ago

Before Apollo it is possible that missions like Surveyor 3 were contaminated with bacteria like Streptococcus mitis which may have been found on components of Surveyor 3 returned by Apollo astronauts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveyor_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveyor_3

duchenne 7y ago

Confucious would reply: When the wise man builds an incredible machine that can bring us to the Moon, the fool looks at the bags of feces. More seriously, because of the rocket equation, bringing more payload back would require a lot more fuel. Bringing this additional fuel to the Moon would also require even more fuel. The Saturn rocket is still the biggest rocket ever made. Probably, the engineers back then did not want to make an even bigger one just to bring back the bags.

dogma1138 7y ago
Even if they built a larger rocket it would be better to pack more people, experiments or bring back more samples than poop. We got enough poop on earth, the bacteria would die due to UV and hard vacuum you could even decontaminate the left overs before chugging them out of the window on your way back home if you want to be extra careful.

raverbashing 7y ago

The low "air" pressure, lack of atmosphere, lack of magnetosphere, radiation (including UV radiation from the sun) kinda makes sure it becomes a non-issue in a short time. That's why NASA probably didn't worry about leaving it there too much. It won't decay biologically though. I disagree with "Pristine environment", it gets hit with extra-solar-system all the time, as the several marks on its surface attest to it.

Retra 7y ago

From an outside perspective, that waste is probably the most interesting and valuable part of the moon now. And this idea of 'purity' is rather absurd, given the size of the moon. Almost nothing in the universe is so pure that you can't find contaminants on the order of ~1 part per mole. Do you complain when someone leaves a gold atom on a sugar cube?

usefulcat 7y ago

Well, they could have, but if they had they would have brought back fewer samples of actual material from the surface of the moon. Given the enormous expense and risk involved in getting there, it's far from obvious to me that they made the wrong decision.