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I've had a similar experience. My work right now can be roughly described as engineering. However I've had a brief experience of trying to market myself as an a

I've had a similar experience. My work right now can be roughly described as engineering. However I've had a brief experience of trying to market myself as an artist/photographer about three years ago (I did photography as a hobby). People in the arts community are very picky when it comes to design. I had to learn nearly everything by myself. I found that as I was learning more about design, my outlook about art in general started to change, which in turn started to affect my photography (i.e. my content). Design is a very subtle thing. It is a mistake to think about design as "making things pretty." Design is communication. Everything you do reveals something about yourself. Design is about taking control of what the choices you make reveal about yourself. A lot of engineers I know have the attitude (it's almost a cliche to say it) that "design is unnecessary; things don't have to be pretty." They say that because they have never experienced great design or have never had a chance to work with great designers. Great designers do not make things pretty; making things pretty for its own sake is frowned upon in the design community. This is not the 19th century when design amounted to putting in as much ornament as you could fit. The best 20th century design was closer to "information design" than to decoration. Some of the greatest designers of the 20th century were also engineers and architects. Charles Eames was an expert in structural engineering and materials science, which gave him a distinctive edge (Charles and Ray introduced many new materials such as plywood, fiberglass into their furniture designs). Muller Brockmann (inventor of the "grid") was extremely precise (as well as concise) with his poster layouts -- as precise as any engineer is with the blueprints. A related tendency some engineers have is that they dismiss the expertise of people who went to a design school or an art school. They assume (incorrectly) that whatever they themselves "like" will also be liked by other people. In this regard, I blame engineers more than I blame designers. Designers (at least all the good ones) understand that engineering is a complex domain and that they have to listen to the words of people who have studied it and/or are doing it professionally. Engineers, on the other hand, have this tendency to look down on art and design as "soft" subjects, to view them as unnecessary, and they tend to be dismissive of people who studied it. This attitude is self-defeating, however, since it only contributes to the proliferation of bad designs, which in turn gives the advantage to good designs because they start to be seen as "rare" and distinctive.

kaylarose 16y ago
"A related tendency some engineers have is that they dismiss the expertise of people who went to a design school or an art school. They think (incorrectly) that whatever they themselves "like" will also be liked by other people....Engineers, on the other hand, have this tendency to look down on art and design as "soft" subjects, to view them as unnecessary, and they tend to be dismissive of people who studied it." I agree, whole hearted-ly. But I also think that, with effort, those opinions can be changed. I have a similar background as the Author - brief stint in a Fine Arts school, went to college for Graphic/Web Design, transitioned into web and desktop development. I work in a "Enterprise Java" shop with tons of guys with Computer Engineering Degrees that think like this. When I was hired it was like "here comes this girl talking about making things look pretty, blah blah". But I found after I just designed some apps (simple to use, nice-looking) and users started complimenting it, they started to change their minds. After awhile explaining to them what makes for good designs (simplicity, subtlety, small details, alignment, etc.) and why, a lot of those things started to work their way into our products. In my opinion, most people that don't appreciate good design just haven't been exposed to the knowledge to appreciate it or just need to see concrete benefits. Edit: It also helps win them over faster if you can write good code behind the designs too.
sudont 16y ago
> They think (incorrectly) that whatever they themselves "like" will also be liked by other people. This stems from kindergarten, really. This is where we start telling children that everyone's aesthetic opinions are correct. When anybody complains, the standard answer is "hey, that's his opinion, and it's just as valid as yours." A designer is taught the basics of universal aesthetics, and this quote: “Don’t try to be original, just try to be good.” However, there exist things such as the golden measure, which are inherently more attractive, measurably and proven, to humans. This is why gothic architecture seems so alien, and why their paintings are messed up... their definition of proper proportion was incorrect. They felt the human body was an ugly vessel for the soul, and that churches should reach to God. It took us a while to realize that neo-classical Greek architecture and sculpting was inherently correct, that things need to be based on Φ to be human. Look at a Macbook Pro. It's beautiful. I know a few Windows developers who HATE the mac operating system, but run a MBP because the hardware is so nice, so good looking. This is in contrast to the personal preference of some fantasy lover who decks a computer out with skulls and blue lights. There is a human style that is universal, but often clouded by personal and cultural preferences. Our things are based on our proportions: the traditional musical scale is based on pitch segments of what the human voice is capable of. Because of this common design thread, there are solutions that are more inherently correct and pleasing than others. You don't ever hear an engineer complain about mathematical beauty. The reason most people don't say anything about design? They don't have words for it, and without those words they can't understand a concept. I've taught friends about typography and they suddenly start to develop a design aesthetic, much like your photography skills. This is fairly similar to a culture with no concept of higher numbers: one, two, many. Start here: http://moma.org/explore/collection/index http://moma.org/explore/collection/index

kaylarose 16y ago

"A related tendency some engineers have is that they dismiss the expertise of people who went to a design school or an art school. They think (incorrectly) that whatever they themselves "like" will also be liked by other people....Engineers, on the other hand, have this tendency to look down on art and design as "soft" subjects, to view them as unnecessary, and they tend to be dismissive of people who studied it." I agree, whole hearted-ly. But I also think that, with effort, those opinions can be changed. I have a similar background as the Author - brief stint in a Fine Arts school, went to college for Graphic/Web Design, transitioned into web and desktop development. I work in a "Enterprise Java" shop with tons of guys with Computer Engineering Degrees that think like this. When I was hired it was like "here comes this girl talking about making things look pretty, blah blah". But I found after I just designed some apps (simple to use, nice-looking) and users started complimenting it, they started to change their minds. After awhile explaining to them what makes for good designs (simplicity, subtlety, small details, alignment, etc.) and why, a lot of those things started to work their way into our products. In my opinion, most people that don't appreciate good design just haven't been exposed to the knowledge to appreciate it or just need to see concrete benefits. Edit: It also helps win them over faster if you can write good code behind the designs too.

sudont 16y ago

> They think (incorrectly) that whatever they themselves "like" will also be liked by other people. This stems from kindergarten, really. This is where we start telling children that everyone's aesthetic opinions are correct. When anybody complains, the standard answer is "hey, that's his opinion, and it's just as valid as yours." A designer is taught the basics of universal aesthetics, and this quote: “Don’t try to be original, just try to be good.” However, there exist things such as the golden measure, which are inherently more attractive, measurably and proven, to humans. This is why gothic architecture seems so alien, and why their paintings are messed up... their definition of proper proportion was incorrect. They felt the human body was an ugly vessel for the soul, and that churches should reach to God. It took us a while to realize that neo-classical Greek architecture and sculpting was inherently correct, that things need to be based on Φ to be human. Look at a Macbook Pro. It's beautiful. I know a few Windows developers who HATE the mac operating system, but run a MBP because the hardware is so nice, so good looking. This is in contrast to the personal preference of some fantasy lover who decks a computer out with skulls and blue lights. There is a human style that is universal, but often clouded by personal and cultural preferences. Our things are based on our proportions: the traditional musical scale is based on pitch segments of what the human voice is capable of. Because of this common design thread, there are solutions that are more inherently correct and pleasing than others. You don't ever hear an engineer complain about mathematical beauty. The reason most people don't say anything about design? They don't have words for it, and without those words they can't understand a concept. I've taught friends about typography and they suddenly start to develop a design aesthetic, much like your photography skills. This is fairly similar to a culture with no concept of higher numbers: one, two, many. Start here: http://moma.org/explore/collection/index http://moma.org/explore/collection/index