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So, basically NHTSA is threatening Tesla because NHTSA believe their own crash tests aren't good enough to base claims about risk of injury on? As in, "5 stars"

So, basically NHTSA is threatening Tesla because NHTSA believe their own crash tests aren't good enough to base claims about risk of injury on? As in, "5 stars" means "5 stars" and not "low risk of injury"...

zelon88 7y ago
No, you just don't understand the star system. Stars are how well the car contains the passengers during an accident in a variety of situations. 5 stars does not mean "low risk of injury" at all. Infact, a 1 star Sterling box truck will probably cut a Tesla with a 5 star rating in half. Guess who's walking away almost 100% of the time? The star rating is more a rating of how well the car holds together, prioritizes it's occupants, and the effectiveness of it's safety features. They mostly don't consider factors such as the mass of the vehicles involved or other important factors that become non-arbitrary as soon as you enter the real world.
- lazyjones 7y ago
  > Infact, a 1 star Sterling box truck will probably cut a Tesla with a 5 star rating in half. Guess who's walking away almost 100% of the time? So what is the average risk of injury in all of the following situations for each of these vehicles (Sterling box truck, Tesla Model 3)? - 50 mph against a thick wall - 50 mph against a Sterling box truck - 50 mph against a random car - 50 mph into a dense forest - 50 mph falling off a 50 foot ledge And what's the average risk of getting into these situations, for weighting? My point is that a Sterling box truck might crush a Tesla Model 3, but the vehicle's own mass isn't always helping and with no airbags and crumple zones the risk of injury is still higher in many common situations. So let's not overrate one particular situation vs a large truck.
  - dragontamer 7y ago
    You missed a common, realistic, situation. 50mph Model 3 vs a 50mph Sterling Box Truck. Situations when OTHER objects run into you. Its unfortunate, but people "armor up" and buy heavier vehicles for safety in these situations.
  - zelon88 7y ago
    And my point is that, statistically, if you want the lowest risk of injury in the real world you'll buy the one star box truck because you'll have triple the mass of 90% of the vehicles that could possibly hit you. Everybody buys 5 star cars. So there's an abundance of them. When a Chevy Spark crashes into a Toyota Corolla it's a good representation of what crash tests simulate. Sure they could make every car crash into a semi truck and give them a rating but none of the dummies would survive. None of them. Even the mighty Tesla. But trucker Bob goes home to his family at the end of every shift. They would be grading flaming chunks of steel and plastic all day. That's why I drive an SUV. Because I'm broke and can't afford a new "safe" car, but in all liklihood I'm bigger than the median vehicle size so that gives me comfort.
    - lazyjones 7y ago
      > And my point is that, statistically, if you want the lowest risk of injury in the real world you'll buy the one star box truck because you'll have triple the mass of 90% of the vehicles that could possibly hit you. Not all crashes involve other vehicles, you have to take into account the frequency of crashes vs. the environment.
mtgx 7y ago
How dangerous or not dangerous is the Autopilot has nothing to do with that 5-star rating.

zelon88 7y ago

No, you just don't understand the star system. Stars are how well the car contains the passengers during an accident in a variety of situations. 5 stars does not mean "low risk of injury" at all. Infact, a 1 star Sterling box truck will probably cut a Tesla with a 5 star rating in half. Guess who's walking away almost 100% of the time? The star rating is more a rating of how well the car holds together, prioritizes it's occupants, and the effectiveness of it's safety features. They mostly don't consider factors such as the mass of the vehicles involved or other important factors that become non-arbitrary as soon as you enter the real world.

lazyjones 7y ago
> Infact, a 1 star Sterling box truck will probably cut a Tesla with a 5 star rating in half. Guess who's walking away almost 100% of the time? So what is the average risk of injury in all of the following situations for each of these vehicles (Sterling box truck, Tesla Model 3)? - 50 mph against a thick wall - 50 mph against a Sterling box truck - 50 mph against a random car - 50 mph into a dense forest - 50 mph falling off a 50 foot ledge And what's the average risk of getting into these situations, for weighting? My point is that a Sterling box truck might crush a Tesla Model 3, but the vehicle's own mass isn't always helping and with no airbags and crumple zones the risk of injury is still higher in many common situations. So let's not overrate one particular situation vs a large truck.
- dragontamer 7y ago
  You missed a common, realistic, situation. 50mph Model 3 vs a 50mph Sterling Box Truck. Situations when OTHER objects run into you. Its unfortunate, but people "armor up" and buy heavier vehicles for safety in these situations.
- zelon88 7y ago
  And my point is that, statistically, if you want the lowest risk of injury in the real world you'll buy the one star box truck because you'll have triple the mass of 90% of the vehicles that could possibly hit you. Everybody buys 5 star cars. So there's an abundance of them. When a Chevy Spark crashes into a Toyota Corolla it's a good representation of what crash tests simulate. Sure they could make every car crash into a semi truck and give them a rating but none of the dummies would survive. None of them. Even the mighty Tesla. But trucker Bob goes home to his family at the end of every shift. They would be grading flaming chunks of steel and plastic all day. That's why I drive an SUV. Because I'm broke and can't afford a new "safe" car, but in all liklihood I'm bigger than the median vehicle size so that gives me comfort.
  - lazyjones 7y ago
    > And my point is that, statistically, if you want the lowest risk of injury in the real world you'll buy the one star box truck because you'll have triple the mass of 90% of the vehicles that could possibly hit you. Not all crashes involve other vehicles, you have to take into account the frequency of crashes vs. the environment.

mtgx 7y ago

How dangerous or not dangerous is the Autopilot has nothing to do with that 5-star rating.