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"But by the end of the 80s the writing was on the wall: the Italian system could not support a world-class tech player." There are many that believe - includin

"But by the end of the 80s the writing was on the wall: the Italian system could not support a world-class tech player." There are many that believe - including Olivetti employees back then, according to documented sources - that the US system did in fact "un-support" it to favor IBM, considering the demise of Olivetti is to be mainly attributed to the sudden death of the Italo-Chinese (CEO and CTO) heads of the Olivetti electronics division, in less than clear circumstances. From: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Tchou https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Tchou "Nel 2013 Carlo De Benedetti dichiarò a un programma radiofonico: "In Olivetti c'era la convinzione che fosse stato ucciso dai servizi segreti americani"[6], ipotizzando che l'incidente di Tchou fosse stato in qualche modo provocato per favorire l'IBM[7]." Consider that in these years, Italy was a Cold War playground where secret services of US/Nato on one side and Russia/China on the other, were actively taking part in multiple underground large scale operations.

LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago
I didn't think of that when i read the article, more like what could have been if... Like thinking about alternative histories, and branches in the multiverse, where ours seems to be the one which took several wrong turns in the past. But now that you mention it, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-spectrum_dominance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-spectrum_dominance comes to mind, and with it another blip on my mindmap of what could have been (different). Regarding economic sabotage of / political pressure against http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/msvshistfact.html http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/msvshistfact.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_project
markus_zhang 7y ago
Yes especially after I read the Propaganda Due story...
davidw 7y ago
There's nothing Italy loves more than a good conspiracy theory.
- coldtea 7y ago
  Probably because for those familiar with Italy's history, conspiracies have been proven again and again, including in courts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due#Criminal_organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due#Criminal_organi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piazza_Fontana_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piazza_Fontana_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Pinelli#Suspicious_circumstances_surrounding_his_death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Pinelli#Suspicious_ci... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulio_Andreotti#Trial_for_Mafia_association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulio_Andreotti#Trial_for_Maf... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulio_Andreotti#Trial_for_murder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulio_Andreotti#Trial_for_mur... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_leaks_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_leaks_scandal And that's not even getting into mafia itself, its ties with judges, state and municipal governments and so on (a whole book on its own), church scandals, and so on... Americans, who naively believe in the innocence of states and big corporate interests and disbelieve in political conspiracies and cover ups (despite some of their own elite's shit having been exposed time and again, from Hoover's blakmails and politician surveillance to the Watergate, and from Iran-Contra to Abu Ghraib on to Snowden), should probably refrain from commenting on places like Italy...
  - davidw 7y ago
    I think the difference is that a lot of people in Italy will go straight for the conspiracy theory. Maybe that's why the anti-vax movement (and chemtrails and a lot of other nonsense) is so strong there. I mean... 'dietrologia' is a thing there: https://www.economist.com/johnson/2011/03/15/dietrologia https://www.economist.com/johnson/2011/03/15/dietrologia Just because some things really were plots doesn't mean everything is. Another nice piece on conspiracy theories: https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2002/12/19/thats-what-they-want-you-to-believe https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2002/12/19/that...
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >Just because some things really were plots doesn't mean everything is. No, but it does make one "Once bitten twice shy" so to speak!

LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago

I didn't think of that when i read the article, more like what could have been if... Like thinking about alternative histories, and branches in the multiverse, where ours seems to be the one which took several wrong turns in the past. But now that you mention it, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-spectrum_dominance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-spectrum_dominance comes to mind, and with it another blip on my mindmap of what could have been (different). Regarding economic sabotage of / political pressure against http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/msvshistfact.html http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/msvshistfact.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_project

markus_zhang 7y ago

Yes especially after I read the Propaganda Due story...

davidw 7y ago

There's nothing Italy loves more than a good conspiracy theory.

coldtea 7y ago
Probably because for those familiar with Italy's history, conspiracies have been proven again and again, including in courts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due#Criminal_organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due#Criminal_organi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piazza_Fontana_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piazza_Fontana_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Pinelli#Suspicious_circumstances_surrounding_his_death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Pinelli#Suspicious_ci... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulio_Andreotti#Trial_for_Mafia_association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulio_Andreotti#Trial_for_Maf... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulio_Andreotti#Trial_for_murder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulio_Andreotti#Trial_for_mur... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_leaks_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_leaks_scandal And that's not even getting into mafia itself, its ties with judges, state and municipal governments and so on (a whole book on its own), church scandals, and so on... Americans, who naively believe in the innocence of states and big corporate interests and disbelieve in political conspiracies and cover ups (despite some of their own elite's shit having been exposed time and again, from Hoover's blakmails and politician surveillance to the Watergate, and from Iran-Contra to Abu Ghraib on to Snowden), should probably refrain from commenting on places like Italy...
- davidw 7y ago
  I think the difference is that a lot of people in Italy will go straight for the conspiracy theory. Maybe that's why the anti-vax movement (and chemtrails and a lot of other nonsense) is so strong there. I mean... 'dietrologia' is a thing there: https://www.economist.com/johnson/2011/03/15/dietrologia https://www.economist.com/johnson/2011/03/15/dietrologia Just because some things really were plots doesn't mean everything is. Another nice piece on conspiracy theories: https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2002/12/19/thats-what-they-want-you-to-believe https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2002/12/19/that...
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >Just because some things really were plots doesn't mean everything is. No, but it does make one "Once bitten twice shy" so to speak!