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> To implement an arbitrary data structure, these languages provide a special mechanism called records, structs, objects, etc. The proper name for it would be "

by OskarS 7y ago

> To implement an arbitrary data structure, these languages provide a special mechanism called records, structs, objects, etc. The proper name for it would be "tuple". It is the data structure that consists of a number of fields each one holding either a primitive value, another tuple or a pointer to another tuple of any type. This way a tuple can represent any structure, including nested and recursive ones. In the context of type theory, such structures are called sum types Wait, what? Tuples aren't sum types, they're product types. Like, they're the "cartesian product" of some other types. A sum type would be like a tagged union (or Rust enum) where something can be either one type or the other. I haven't studied a lot of algebraic type theory, but Wikipedia agrees with me on that point [0] Seems like a fairly elementary mistake in an article of this kind... EDIT: also, this, a few paragraphs down: > Moreover, in C++ the pass-by-reference has two flavors: pass the pointer (a common approach) and pass by what's actually called a reference, which is a syntax sugar over pointers that allows accessing the argument with non-pointer syntax (dot instead of arrow) Pass-by-reference in C++ is most certainly not just syntactic sugar for passing in a pointer. A compiler may implement it that way (or it may not), but it's totally wrong to say that passing by reference is just syntactic sugar so you don't have to use arrow notation. The most obvious differences is that a reference can never be null, it can't be changed to point to some other object, you can't do pointer arithmetic to it and you always dereference it when use it. Also: in idiomatic C++, "passing by reference" is far more common than "passing by pointer". I'm going to stop reading this article now. I don't have a lot of faith that this person really knows what they're talking about. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_data_type https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_data_type

vseloved 7y ago
> Wait, what? Tuples aren't sum types, they're product types. Thanks for the correction. As I wrote in the introduction, there will be some errors in these beta-version chapters that are published on the blog (as I, obviously, don't have correctors and reviewers), so I'm thankful to all who notice and point those. > it's totally wrong to say that passing by reference is just syntactic sugar OK, I'd say that it's still syntactic sugar with some benefits :) But I don't agree that it's totally wrong. Some of the things you mentioned are just side-effects (that you can't do pointer arithmetic or pass a null pointer. Actually, it seems that you can with some jiggling: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8571078/pass-by-pointer-pass-by-reference/8571101#8571101 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8571078/pass-by-pointer-...). The point I wanted to make is that pass-by-reference is mostly the same thing. It's, actually, quite a confusing topic (as are many C++ solutions) that was not properly presented to me when I stduied it in school, and this book neither tries to present it, but I had to, at least, mention it here as I was talking about different passing styles.
- OskarS 7y ago
  It's not mostly the same thing, the difference is pretty significant both in practice and in a "type-theoretic" sense. I get what you're saying, that "pass by reference" and "pass by pointer" are both methods to pass an object into a function without copying, but they are very different. An article like this where the whole point is to talk about these things at a more fundamental level, it is bad to claim that they are.
  - vseloved 7y ago
    The point of the article is not to talk about low-level specifics of some language, apart, from, maybe, Lisp sometimes. But, surely, not C++ (although, if you could provide a link with a good and accessible explanation of the differences of the 2 styles I'd add it as a reference for further reading). Stil, I don't see that fundamental difference that you mention. If the differences originate from the points that you listed in the original comments can you, please, make the link more explicit? I understand pass-by-reference as being a slightly higher-level and safer C++ alternative to C's direct pointer-based style. But, surely, I may be missing something. But, it seems that the people who answered the SO question I linked are also missing it. For example, here's a quote: "Basically, references and pointers are not very different from an implementation point of view, the main (and very important) difference is in the philosophy: a reference is the object itself, just with a different name."
    - vseloved 7y ago
      And here's another quote from this very much upvoted answer (https://stackoverflow.com/a/596750/977052 https://stackoverflow.com/a/596750/977052): "A reference can be thought of as a constant pointer (not to be confused with a pointer to a constant value!) with automatic indirection, ie the compiler will apply the * operator for you."
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Here is pass by reference and pass by pointer in Pascal. type Point = record x, y : integer end; procedure ByPointer(p : ^Point); begin p^.x := 12 end; procedure ByReference(var p : Point); begin p.x := 12; p.y := 33 end; procedure example var p : Point begin p.x := 23; p.y := 28; WriteLn('The point is ', p.x, ' ', p.y); ByPointer(@p) WriteLn('The point is ', p.x, ' ', p.y); p.x := 23; p.y := 28; WriteLn('The point is ', p.x, ' ', p.y); ByReference(p) WriteLn('The point is ', p.x, ' ', p.y); end; Actually the concept is already exposed in Algol, a couple of years before C was even an idea.

by OskarS 7y ago

vseloved 7y ago

> Wait, what? Tuples aren't sum types, they're product types. Thanks for the correction. As I wrote in the introduction, there will be some errors in these beta-version chapters that are published on the blog (as I, obviously, don't have correctors and reviewers), so I'm thankful to all who notice and point those. > it's totally wrong to say that passing by reference is just syntactic sugar OK, I'd say that it's still syntactic sugar with some benefits :) But I don't agree that it's totally wrong. Some of the things you mentioned are just side-effects (that you can't do pointer arithmetic or pass a null pointer. Actually, it seems that you can with some jiggling: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8571078/pass-by-pointer-pass-by-reference/8571101#8571101 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8571078/pass-by-pointer-...). The point I wanted to make is that pass-by-reference is mostly the same thing. It's, actually, quite a confusing topic (as are many C++ solutions) that was not properly presented to me when I stduied it in school, and this book neither tries to present it, but I had to, at least, mention it here as I was talking about different passing styles.

OskarS 7y ago
It's not mostly the same thing, the difference is pretty significant both in practice and in a "type-theoretic" sense. I get what you're saying, that "pass by reference" and "pass by pointer" are both methods to pass an object into a function without copying, but they are very different. An article like this where the whole point is to talk about these things at a more fundamental level, it is bad to claim that they are.
- vseloved 7y ago
  The point of the article is not to talk about low-level specifics of some language, apart, from, maybe, Lisp sometimes. But, surely, not C++ (although, if you could provide a link with a good and accessible explanation of the differences of the 2 styles I'd add it as a reference for further reading). Stil, I don't see that fundamental difference that you mention. If the differences originate from the points that you listed in the original comments can you, please, make the link more explicit? I understand pass-by-reference as being a slightly higher-level and safer C++ alternative to C's direct pointer-based style. But, surely, I may be missing something. But, it seems that the people who answered the SO question I linked are also missing it. For example, here's a quote: "Basically, references and pointers are not very different from an implementation point of view, the main (and very important) difference is in the philosophy: a reference is the object itself, just with a different name."
  - vseloved 7y ago
    And here's another quote from this very much upvoted answer (https://stackoverflow.com/a/596750/977052 https://stackoverflow.com/a/596750/977052): "A reference can be thought of as a constant pointer (not to be confused with a pointer to a constant value!) with automatic indirection, ie the compiler will apply the * operator for you."
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Here is pass by reference and pass by pointer in Pascal. type Point = record x, y : integer end; procedure ByPointer(p : ^Point); begin p^.x := 12 end; procedure ByReference(var p : Point); begin p.x := 12; p.y := 33 end; procedure example var p : Point begin p.x := 23; p.y := 28; WriteLn('The point is ', p.x, ' ', p.y); ByPointer(@p) WriteLn('The point is ', p.x, ' ', p.y); p.x := 23; p.y := 28; WriteLn('The point is ', p.x, ' ', p.y); ByReference(p) WriteLn('The point is ', p.x, ' ', p.y); end; Actually the concept is already exposed in Algol, a couple of years before C was even an idea.