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Unfortunately, I wonder if extreme bullying could preclude any opportunities if your abuser is a successful authority figure in medicine? That probably sounds c

Unfortunately, I wonder if extreme bullying could preclude any opportunities if your abuser is a successful authority figure in medicine? That probably sounds crazy. Edit: maybe someone that downvoted this could help me understand what is disagreeable about this comment?

barry-cotter 7y ago
There are no prestige occupations where authority figures can’t preclude opportunities. Academia, medicine, law, any large bureaucracy, in any one of them if you piss off the wrong person your career is over. There are bad fields for this and worse ones. You could work for Citibank, realise that your career was being deliberately destroyed by a superior and you might be able to move to a competitor and get over it. Same for the private sector more generally. But if you work in fields that are either directly government run or depend on government funding, like medicine or academia, if you realise someone with power has it in for you just leave. You’re not going to win. The idea that extreme bullying is anything other than a normal feature of bureaucratic organisations with no competition is farcical. It’s like believing in fairness or the tooth fairy.
- wallace_f 7y ago
  Ah, in this case I didn't interact with this person. I'm not sure what his obsession was with me. This started in our first year of university. It was not isolated to that person, they were just the most-aggressive.
Thiez 7y ago
I didn't downvote but your questions give me a strong impression that you are fishing for an answer that will allow you to conclude that 'top student' status is not (significantly) influenced by relevant skills but by other factors. Perhaps your comments would have been received better had you been more open about your own opinion/suspicions from the start. In their current form they feel like leading questions.
- wallace_f 7y ago
  Ah that would an incorrect assumption. My question was genuine. Edit: it is hard-enough as is for people who deal with abuse to openly talk about it. It would be good to give people the benefit of the doubt rather than accuse them of doing something wrong. Reality is not like that though, and many people living with ill will or abuse are often seen as "must have done something" to be experiencing that.
  - Thiez 7y ago
    > it is hard-enough as is for people who deal with abuse to openly talk about it. It would be good to give people the benefit of the doubt rather than accuse them of doing something wrong. I'm not sure why you act as if I am attacking you. Like I said I wasn't the one to downvote you, and I only offered a possible explanation for that downvote in response to a question that you asked. I'm sorry you were abused at some point and that wasn't your fault. But it sounds like that was in the past. Yet you are immediately taking a victim role in this conversation, and also in your replies to others in this thread. If you feel like people are out to get you all the time then chances are you are letting your past experiences colour your perceptions too much.
amedstudent1 7y ago
Irrespective if this question has any ulterior motives the answer is yes, definitely. It goes both ways, if you upset someone important there goes your chances in that speciality of medicine. On the flip side if your buddies with the important guys they can basically secure you a spot on a coveted program for instance. Medicine and it’s specialities are competitive to get into and there’s obviously way more demand than supply. So authority figures can pick and chose whom they want and also bad word spreads rapidly and you can be effectively blacklisted for messing with the wrong person. I’ve seen it a lot in my very young medical career. There’s some parts where it’s more of a factor and other parts where it’s less. I find it a fascinating topic actually but it’s one of those things that varies depending on many factors a big one being location/country.
- wallace_f 7y ago
  Thanks for you answer; but I caution you to consider not assuming, blaming or accusing victims of abuse to having brought it upon themselves. When you say I "messed with the wrong person," I would hope to be able ask you not to assume that. In my case I did not recall even having interacted with this person before it started. By the way I hope you are wrong in your judgement here regarding opportunity, but I fear that you are right.

barry-cotter 7y ago

There are no prestige occupations where authority figures can’t preclude opportunities. Academia, medicine, law, any large bureaucracy, in any one of them if you piss off the wrong person your career is over. There are bad fields for this and worse ones. You could work for Citibank, realise that your career was being deliberately destroyed by a superior and you might be able to move to a competitor and get over it. Same for the private sector more generally. But if you work in fields that are either directly government run or depend on government funding, like medicine or academia, if you realise someone with power has it in for you just leave. You’re not going to win. The idea that extreme bullying is anything other than a normal feature of bureaucratic organisations with no competition is farcical. It’s like believing in fairness or the tooth fairy.

wallace_f 7y ago
Ah, in this case I didn't interact with this person. I'm not sure what his obsession was with me. This started in our first year of university. It was not isolated to that person, they were just the most-aggressive.

Thiez 7y ago

I didn't downvote but your questions give me a strong impression that you are fishing for an answer that will allow you to conclude that 'top student' status is not (significantly) influenced by relevant skills but by other factors. Perhaps your comments would have been received better had you been more open about your own opinion/suspicions from the start. In their current form they feel like leading questions.

wallace_f 7y ago
Ah that would an incorrect assumption. My question was genuine. Edit: it is hard-enough as is for people who deal with abuse to openly talk about it. It would be good to give people the benefit of the doubt rather than accuse them of doing something wrong. Reality is not like that though, and many people living with ill will or abuse are often seen as "must have done something" to be experiencing that.
- Thiez 7y ago
  > it is hard-enough as is for people who deal with abuse to openly talk about it. It would be good to give people the benefit of the doubt rather than accuse them of doing something wrong. I'm not sure why you act as if I am attacking you. Like I said I wasn't the one to downvote you, and I only offered a possible explanation for that downvote in response to a question that you asked. I'm sorry you were abused at some point and that wasn't your fault. But it sounds like that was in the past. Yet you are immediately taking a victim role in this conversation, and also in your replies to others in this thread. If you feel like people are out to get you all the time then chances are you are letting your past experiences colour your perceptions too much.

amedstudent1 7y ago

Irrespective if this question has any ulterior motives the answer is yes, definitely. It goes both ways, if you upset someone important there goes your chances in that speciality of medicine. On the flip side if your buddies with the important guys they can basically secure you a spot on a coveted program for instance. Medicine and it’s specialities are competitive to get into and there’s obviously way more demand than supply. So authority figures can pick and chose whom they want and also bad word spreads rapidly and you can be effectively blacklisted for messing with the wrong person. I’ve seen it a lot in my very young medical career. There’s some parts where it’s more of a factor and other parts where it’s less. I find it a fascinating topic actually but it’s one of those things that varies depending on many factors a big one being location/country.

wallace_f 7y ago
Thanks for you answer; but I caution you to consider not assuming, blaming or accusing victims of abuse to having brought it upon themselves. When you say I "messed with the wrong person," I would hope to be able ask you not to assume that. In my case I did not recall even having interacted with this person before it started. By the way I hope you are wrong in your judgement here regarding opportunity, but I fear that you are right.